Robin Miller on the IRL bid

[Mags]

Originally posted by Fogelhund
$100 million dollars of shareholder money wasted so that the racing bits could be bought cheap? Not quite brilliant stuff. Any rational person could think of a better alternative.

IF indeed that was the known goal, then Pook will be a very poor man after this is done, and the equivalent of Enron leaders.

The blood was already shed; and Pook wasn't the one that was buying it.

[Fogelhund]

I don't know what you are saying, the blood was already shed?

I edited before your replied, so I'll revisit.

It is your suggestion that Pook knowingly defrauded shareholders of $100 million. That "blood" is on his hands. That makes him the equivalent of Enron's leaders in my books, really how is one fraud different from another?

You are missing the point on Pook being a poor man. People who knowingly defraud others of a $100 million normally go to court, and wind up getting sued for big sums of money. They often go to jail.

[Mags]

Originally posted by Fogelhund
I don't know what you are saying, the blood was already shed?

I edited before your replied, so I'll revisit.

It is your suggestion that Pook knowingly defrauded shareholders of $100 million. That "blood" is on his hands. That makes him the equivalent of Enron's leaders in my books, really how is one fraud different from another?

You are missing the point on Pook being a poor man. People who knowingly defraud others of a $100 million normally go to court, and wind up getting sued for big sums of money. They often go to jail.

*sigh*

What I meant was, Mr. Pook was brought in as a damage control, try-to-keep the ship afoat while something could be done to save the series guy. He traveled the world with the series, analizing the best way to save it.

[Fogelhund]

The *sigh* is exactly what the moderators are referring to as being unecessary right now. It didn't add anything to your points.

To your point. Mr. Pook was brought in to be the CEO of MPH (Cart). The role of the CEO of the company is to ensure the maximization of shareholder value. On this job he failed, and your suggestion is he not only failed, but defrauded people as well.

In saving the series. Spending $100 million is about the daftest method to save a series, or company that I have ever heard. Cutting costs, cutting money losing venues, and reducing travel would have made a great deal more sense. CART, the series would still be alive today had this been done, and really it wouldn't have been too hard to do. CART could easily have stayed alive, with a shortened 03' schedule, and cancelling of money losing self promoted events. A dividend for the remaining balance could have been given to the shareholders (probably $50mil), and then the company could have been taken private, on a basis that would not risk being taken over by TG, or any unfriendly party.

The financial reality has to be changed at some point, as there is no way that OWRS can operate in the same manner that CART did. We can talk about OWRS not spending the money, but someone sure has to, and that is either OWRS, the Team Owners, or the sponsors, and I'm sorry if this bores you, but the money does not add up.

No matter how you slice it, costs needed to be cut. There are many more ways to take a company private then "defraud" its investors, and place it on the auction block for anyone to take.

It's beginning to look alot like Pook spent $100 million, and ensured TG would have control over Open Wheel racing.

I don't call that brilliant at all.

Seeing as we differ in opinions, I'll leave it at that.

[Mags]

Originally posted by Fogelhund
The *sigh* is exactly what the moderators are referring to as being unecessary right now. It didn't add anything to your points.

To your point. Mr. Pook was brought in to be the CEO of MPH (Cart). The role of the CEO of the company is to ensure the maximization of shareholder value. On this job he failed, and your suggestion is he not only failed, but defrauded people as well.

In saving the series. Spending $100 million is about the daftest method to save a series, or company that I have ever heard. Cutting costs, cutting money losing venues, and reducing travel would have made a great deal more sense. CART, the series would still be alive today had this been done, and really it wouldn't have been too hard to do. CART could easily have stayed alive, with a shortened 03' schedule, and cancelling of money losing self promoted events. A dividend for the remaining balance could have been given to the shareholders (probably $50mil), and then the company could have been taken private, on a basis that would not risk being taken over by TG, or any unfriendly party.

The financial reality has to be changed at some point, as there is no way that OWRS can operate in the same manner that CART did. We can talk about OWRS not spending the money, but someone sure has to, and that is either OWRS, the Team Owners, or the sponsors, and I'm sorry if this bores you, but the money does not add up.

No matter how you slice it, costs needed to be cut. There are many more ways to take a company private then "defraud" its investors, and place it on the auction block for anyone to take.

It's beginning to look alot like Pook spent $100 million, and ensured TG would have control over Open Wheel racing.

I don't call that brilliant at all.

Seeing as we differ in opinions, I'll leave it at that.

I didn't know I needed to score "points". I'm entitled to have opinins just like anyone else here. I'm sighing because I'm frustrated, just like everyone else.

So what is YOUR solution to all of this?

[Fogelhund]

After quoting someone's reply, then sighing, it appears as though you are showing exasperation at them, not frustration at the whole situation. Thank you for your explanation though.

My solution....

It's too late for solutions now. What is done, is done.

This was my comments from early last year.

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...5&pagenumber=2

What should have been done, is costs cut, to ensure the long term viability without having to worry about buyouts.. it was very possible.

What should be done? Its such a mess now isn't it?

I am assuming that OWRS is going to fail in their bid now. If they win, they need to cut costs big time.

My opinion is that fans of Road Racing, and the powers who believe in it, should consolidate to provide the best alternative to what appears to be a cartel. I believe that consolidation should be with the last man standing, ALMS.

Perhaps when the ALMS is strenghtened with more top class support, then a Open Wheel road racing series can be run along with the ALMS as a support/equal series. A viable big name and strong series needs to be there to counterbalance the N3 Cartel. Starting a fledgeling Open Wheel series stengthens the divide an conquer people.

[jjspierx]

Originally posted by Fogelhund
The *sigh* is exactly what the moderators are referring to as being unecessary right now. It didn't add anything to your points.[/i]

Layoff a little Fogelhund. Since when is expressing emotion against the forum policy? He wasn't flaming or provoking. Its quite natural to human nature to express emotion, especially over a topic that means a great deal to him, me and countless others on this forum who don't necessarily post a whole lot. It isn't your right to tell somebody what the moderators "are to referring to as being unecessary". That is the moderators job alone, so leave it to them. I think you are probably the only person on this board who sees "*sigh*" as being inappropriate.

Originally posted by Fogelhund
To your point. Mr. Pook was brought in to be the CEO of MPH (Cart). The role of the CEO of the company is to ensure the maximization of shareholder value. On this job he failed, and your suggestion is he not only failed, but defrauded people as well.

In saving the series. Spending $100 million is about the daftest method to save a series, or company that I have ever heard. Cutting costs, cutting money losing venues, and reducing travel would have made a great deal more sense. CART, the series would still be alive today had this been done, and really it wouldn't have been too hard to do. CART could easily have stayed alive, with a shortened 03' schedule, and cancelling of money losing self promoted events. A dividend for the remaining balance could have been given to the shareholders (probably $50mil), and then the company could have been taken private, on a basis that would not risk being taken over by TG, or any unfriendly party. [/i]

Unless you have some sort of business degree and you are direclty involved in the inner workings of CART, everything you just stated is baseless and presumptious. None of us have the knowledge to be able to sum up the financial problems of a company in one paragraph and also say what could have been done to save it.

[Fogelhund]

FWIW, I do have some sort of business degree, actually University degree in Finance, and I am a stock broker, with further years of training courses in that area. Having said that, and gone over 100's of financial statements, I would state I am as qualified as any other to make statements on the financial well being of a company.

It is neither baseless nor made up much of presumptions. I'll state in one sentenance what should have been done, and I've stated if for quite some time, well before the 03' season. They need to cut costs. It was and is that simple.

[Snrub]

I think Fogelhund has a point about Pook spending too much money in 2003. There was clearly some extravagnace that went further than simply keep the series alive. Spending all that money didn't make sense if there was nothing left at the end because then the series couldn't continue and no one would pay anything for it. We could have had a good season if he'd spent half as much. That said, big money had to be spent regardless. I've said this much in the past too. I'm certainly not anti-Pook, I just think it could have been done a bit better. (not saying he wasn't good)

[SurfaceUnits]

It would be very interesting to find out if Chris really believed Bernie was interested. That's the only reason I can think of why he would spend all the money.

[sgjb]

Everybody is looking at Pook believing it was best for him to spend the money to keep things going.

It wasn't, his obligations to shareholders should have been to take apart the company after the 2002 season. This is when they had the most amount of cash and they could have tried to sell it then and recieve much more for their shares. He had no long term strategy, that made it really make sense to spend 100 million dollars over 1 year. Also he originally said the money would last for 2 years as well.What a pathetic miscalculation. He may be a good promoter but in this instance a bad business man. He was a failure from all aspects of business.

In regards to racing for all of us fans it appears he saved one year but killed the future!! OWRS is also alot to blame as they influenced Pook a great deal and time will tell if any of these people will become accountable in the future.

If I was Pook I don't think I would be sleeping all that well right now!

Fogelhund you are right in your feelings and thoughts.

[Testure]

Originally posted by rush1
The series formerly know as CART faces the same fate as the ABA and USFL.

The difference is that both CART and IRL are very, very small organisations and neither are on what I'd call a financially sound footing. So I don't think the IRL can afford to alienate CART's fan base in this manner. If there's going to be one series eventually, it would need to be formed willingly by all sides. Deliberately driving your opponents out of business like this isn't the way to proceed and sounds to me like the amateur's guide to doing business. George is coming across as a big fish in the increasingly small puddle that is US open-wheel...

[GP Racer]

Testure, we talked about this before, and I'm still of the opinion that no matter what, at this point in time, TG does to smooth over any bad feelings with CART fans, it will be fruitless.

I mean have you read any of these hateful posts about TG here? There so bad, the mods are working overtime trying to keep control over the forum. The hate spewing out of these people is so over the top, that they can't even see straight, or post anything of value. For these people anything that George touches is now poison.

I agree it would be smarter and cleaner if both sides can mutually agree on this, but its not just TG, now PG seems to want nothing to do with a merger, and is fanning the flames himself, with some of his rhetoric and the anti George statements made of late.

I think its to late to do this clean. If TG wins, many fans with open minds, will come over because of there passion for open wheel, and the ones that don't, the ones spewing blind hate, I say, who needs them?

[MLM]

Originally posted by GP Racer
Testure, we talked about this before, and I'm still of the opinion that no matter what, at this point in time, TG does to smooth over any bad feelings with CART fans, it will be fruitless.

I mean have you read any of these hateful posts about TG here? There so bad, the mods are working overtime trying to keep control over the forum. The hate spewing out of these people is so over the top, that they can't even see straight, or post anything of value. For these people anything that George touches is now poison.

I agree it would be smarter and cleaner if both sides can mutually agree on this, but its not just TG, now PG seems to want nothing to do with a merger, and is fanning the flames himself, with some of his rhetoric and the anti George statements made of late.

I think its to late to do this clean. If TG wins, many fans with open minds, will come over because of there passion for open wheel, and the ones that don't, the ones spewing blind hate, I say, who needs them?

You know what, GP, we kinda started off on a rocky start with the "American drivers" thing, but now I'm finding that I'm agreeing with you on quite a few issues now.

Who knows how many potential NEW fans are out there, waiting to be lured. NASCAR fans are beginning to grumble on some issues, especially this new point/playoff system. Maybe a very smart marketing (and NASCAR has had a BRILIIANT onethe past 10-15 years) campaign could coax some of those fans to OW. And there are young American drivers who are having trouble breaking into NASCAR because there's a GLUT of drivers now.
It ceratinly doesn't hurt to keep an OPEN MIND these days.

BTW,GP you have a good sense of humor. I saw your reply to my "knickers in a wad" crack.

[GP Racer]

Thanks for your support MLM, everyone eventually finds out I'm right!

My views on alot of this are alittle controversial, but I believe these are changing times, and the staus quo from the past is not going to cut it anymore. Open wheel needs to grab onto the future, now. Ecomomics, mass marketing, and drivers that are household names and in your face, over the top, big-time TV, is the only way for racing to survive in todays market place. NASCAR has changed everything, and they are the bar that all others have to shoot for in order to make it, and there are only a couple of players left with the juice to do that. And I'm sorry, but IMHO, OWRS is not one of them.

Even if they can somehow win this, how long do you think they will last, with a TV contract on Spike TV, no sponsors, struggling to get 18 cars and a dwindling number of venues, and an American fan base that no longer cares? This is the year, where we can at least have some hope for a future, if the IRL wins. They may not be the answer, but it puts open wheel back in the game, and gives us a fair shot at making it. It makes the Indy 500 important again, and thats huge, because open wheel without it, is like sports cars without the 24 hrs.Of LeMans. It can't be marginalised. My prediction for the future with the IRL is a rosy one, perhaps to rosy, but even if only half of what I expect to see happen, does, it will be better than what we are stuck with now.

Well I could go on(for hours actually!LOL)but I think you get my drift, and MHO on all of this.

Thanks again MLM