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Old 30 Jan 2019, 09:30 (Ref:3880611)   #26
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If the need is great enough, Hopefully it will happen!
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Old 30 Jan 2019, 17:01 (Ref:3880707)   #27
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If the need is great enough, Hopefully it will happen!
As long as need translates into enough money, the replica DCOs were eye wateringly expensive.

Or there might be a rush on SUs, but some new SUs can be surprisingly expensive as well.
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Old 31 Jan 2019, 10:02 (Ref:3880845)   #28
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It's a lot easier/cheaper to reproduce sand cast things than die-cast.

C&G used to make 58DCOs.
At least one outfit are currently making 45DCOs for Jaguars.

Not sure how much the Jag ones are but the 58s were quite (!) expensive.

The FIA will probably say the car is worth far more than the cost of the carbs - which is true for some of them but possibly not for some Climax single cam powered cars for example.

I guess it depends on your definition of cost effective.
Linking correctness and respect of history to costs would only kill the category, much more cost effective to fit a VTec engine in a Cortina isn't it? But then, it's no longer linked to what it was. Replicas are not historic but the least is to have them like the period ones.
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Old 10 Feb 2019, 15:25 (Ref:3882960)   #29
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Just back from Rétromobile, seems Jaguar Heritage has some old 45 DCO3 (#109 for instance) fitted on D Type. Hope this can help. More details may be John elwin knows more.
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Old 10 Feb 2019, 15:42 (Ref:3882964)   #30
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Just back from Rétromobile, seems Jaguar Heritage has some old 45 DCO3 (#109 for instance) fitted on D Type. Hope this can help. More details may be John elwin knows more.
Yes, 45s being fitted on Jaguars was mentioned a few posts ago. I think it’s 40s that are required for the smaller engined cars discussed (much) earlier....
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Old 12 Feb 2019, 07:53 (Ref:3883457)   #31
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The 1955 Arzani-Volpini F1 car used Weber 48DOM carburation. Does that help?

Source Denis Jenkinson.
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Old 12 Feb 2019, 13:25 (Ref:3883516)   #32
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The 1955 Arzani-Volpini F1 car used Weber 48DOM carburation. Does that help?

Source Denis Jenkinson.
Have you had your Ouija Board out again Baub?
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Old 12 Feb 2019, 13:36 (Ref:3883518)   #33
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Thanks Bob. Your research is appreciated but is unlikely to help in this instance.

The concern was over the date of introduction of later DCOE versions. These are now being used on cars that in period had earlier DCO carbs, as those are very difficult to source. This is leading to HTP papers being refused. Mainly affects cars with smaller Coventry Climax engines from the late 50s early 60s......
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Old 12 Feb 2019, 13:47 (Ref:3883523)   #34
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Thanks Bob. Your research is appreciated but is unlikely to help in this instance.
Whilst I respect that Bob's post may not help with the particular topic, as a side issue I learnt of a previously unknown to me, beautiful 50's F1 car (even if on looking into it, it only managed one DNS at the '55 Italian GP.)
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Old 12 Feb 2019, 15:27 (Ref:3883548)   #35
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Whilst I respect that Bob's post may not help with the particular topic, as a side issue I learnt of a previously unknown to me, beautiful 50's F1 car (even if on looking into it, it only managed one DNS at the '55 Italian GP.)
The car was built for a wealthy young Italian, Mario Alborghetti, who had raced touring cars and done a few rallies, in it's first outing in the Pau grand Prix, Alborghetti crashed, and died from his injuries.

The car was entered for the Italian GP for Luigi Piotti, but failed to start. The project was then put aside.

Unlike British 'one-off' racing cars it had it's own four cylinder engine.

A sad story, for a worthy effort.
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Old 12 Feb 2019, 15:31 (Ref:3883549)   #36
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Originally Posted by Mike Bell View Post
Thanks Bob. Your research is appreciated but is unlikely to help in this instance.

The concern was over the date of introduction of later DCOE versions. These are now being used on cars that in period had earlier DCO carbs, as those are very difficult to source. This is leading to HTP papers being refused. Mainly affects cars with smaller Coventry Climax engines from the late 50s early 60s......
Of course Mike I have no idea of what I am talking about, but do own some fairly old books. The 250F Maser used 42DCOA3 Webers in 1954, while Ferrari used 50 and 58 DCOA3 models.

Probably no help at all. but I do like to show-off
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Old 12 Feb 2019, 15:50 (Ref:3883555)   #37
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Old 12 Feb 2019, 15:53 (Ref:3883559)   #38
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Do Lotus Elites use DCOEs?
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Old 12 Feb 2019, 15:57 (Ref:3883560)   #39
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Mon Ami Robert, I already told you that your pictures might help one day. Your memory too. What did you say about Behra not appreciating the diameter of the auxiliary venturis fitted on his Maserati? May be at Rouen les Essarts… Please take a lesson of what show off-must be ! La culture c'est comme la confiture, moins on en a et plus on l'étale!
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Old 12 Feb 2019, 16:07 (Ref:3883565)   #40
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Do Lotus Elites use DCOEs?
Yes as they are a later (1961) homologation. 40DCOE or H4 SU on the form.
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Old 12 Feb 2019, 16:13 (Ref:3883567)   #41
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If Jag' Heritage can have 45 DCO made why not 40? Just a matter of money.
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Old 12 Feb 2019, 16:20 (Ref:3883570)   #42
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Probably because it will cost a lot to get it into production, and someone will have to bankroll that. Then the risk is selling enough to get the investment back. But as has been said in the thread before, if there is enough demand for anything, it can be done.....
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Old 12 Feb 2019, 16:26 (Ref:3883573)   #43
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Indeed.
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Old 14 Feb 2019, 09:15 (Ref:3884052)   #44
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If Jag' Heritage can have 45 DCO made why not 40? Just a matter of money.
There's no problem making them if the demand is there.
It could be possible to make 40mm versions using the patterns for the 45s, which would save a lot even if they aren't 100% accurate.

Given what Jaguar are charging for their cars they have included the 15 grand or so for 3 new carbs, which is apparently less than they "spend" on the paintwork.

The problem is people who's cars are worth less than a tenth of the price of the new Jaguars where 10 grand (only 2 carbs) is a large proportion of the cars value.

Another issue is why fitting brand new carbs to a 60 year old car makes it more original than using what could be 50 year old carbs.
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Old 11 Nov 2019, 11:53 (Ref:3939936)   #45
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Just had this from Jakob Holstein, who is another Lotus XI owner affected by the carb issue. Guess it doesn’t prove anything, except that a Weber carb of some type was available and fitted in 1956. Interesting, though....
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Old 11 Nov 2019, 17:14 (Ref:3939979)   #46
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More info from Jakob- Crosthwaite & Gardiner and D Type Developments are both in the process of manufacturing new 40DCO3 carbs, and hope they will be available for next season. At a cost no doubt.....

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Old 19 Dec 2020, 04:29 (Ref:4023820)   #47
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Norman Seeney is also making 40 DCO3s, 1st set is for me at Four Ashes Garage , we already made 60 of the DB2/ DB3/ DB3S inlet manifolds 5 years ago from a period pattern, of which we have 48 available still.
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Old 19 Dec 2020, 17:13 (Ref:4023932)   #48
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I think I read somewhere that DCOEs were 1st fitted to ?? in 1958, certainly the Prototype DB4GT DP199 was fitted with DCOEs from the word go in 1959.
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Old 20 Dec 2020, 12:29 (Ref:4024104)   #49
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I think I read somewhere that DCOEs were 1st fitted to ?? in 1958, certainly the Prototype DB4GT DP199 was fitted with DCOEs from the word go in 1959.
from John Wyers notes 45DCOE4s were fitted to DP199 for Le Mans so AM must have had them in late 58 or early 59 to build & test the engine then make the LM test day in April
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Old 21 Dec 2020, 10:26 (Ref:4024308)   #50
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The DB4 GT is indeed one of the first cars to have been equipped with the DCOEs and that can be verified through Homologation but also manufacturer documentation, either Aston Martin directly or Weber as they were proud of that and advertised it in their own catalogues.

Generally speaking, 1958 is considered as the introduction year for those carburettors BUT period specification prevails. Arguably, the DCO3s were considered better units back then and SUs were also well in use on a whole lot of cars, homologated or not.
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