[VASC17R25R26] Coates Hire Newcastle 500:24-26 Nov

[Umai Naa]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

The same can also be said that it's also not their job to get in a wreck when you're on for your best performance of the season (Simona that is).

Different race, different set of circumstances.

Try again.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

The same can also be said that it's also not their job to get in a wreck when you're on for your best performance of the season (Simona that is).

From my view, Mr McLaughlin took SdS out.
You can argue about superior car speed and the like, bur the pass was not effected cleanly & should have been, could have been, wasn’t.
And for that, a penalty showed up.
As it should have..

The impact on Mr McLaughlin was to put him back into the more desperate/cut throat end of the field, and without a teammate to lead the way Ricky Bobby/Cal Naughton Jr style, was always going to need to rely on superior race craft to move up

Especially after the pitlane speeding thing, which arguably was an example of poor discipline on the day.

And didn’t have what was needed on the day.

But jeez we got a great show!

[Sandgroper]

I tell ya what how good was the race compared to the F1 procession later in the evening. They may as well use remote control on F1 cars, follow the leader.

[Umai Naa]

Dunno about that. RC racing I've seen makes the weekend's Supercar event look tame.

[FAS33]

Toad racing is where it's at. Makes all motor racing look quite stale.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

The same can also be said that it's also not their job to get in a wreck when you're on for your best performance of the season (Simona that is).

Simona didn't get into a wreck

She got wrecked, there is a difference

[Razzzor]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

Different race, different set of circumstances.

Try again.

You must be confused. We're talking about the SdS vs SM incident. Not only the same race, but the same incident.

[Razzzor]

Originally Posted by one five five

Simona didn't get into a wreck

She got wrecked, there is a difference

My point is she could have avoided it by leaving a car width. Scott was to blame because he didn't get far enough alongside her, but he was not out of control locking up and crashing into another car (as opposed to what he did to Moffat). Only difference is Moffat stayed straight and didn't spin otherwise he would have copped a penalty for that too.

[Razzzor]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Especially after the pitlane speeding thing, which arguably was an example of poor discipline on the day.

I wonder if they'll ever publish the proof on that to show it was legit speeding. V8SC probably should, to ease the conspiracy theorists. Seems strange with both Penske's doing the same thing almost like it's a technical issue rather than driver error, like they were pushing the limit on the limiter too much.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

I wonder if they'll ever publish the proof on that to show it was legit speeding. V8SC probably should, to ease the conspiracy theorists. Seems strange with both Penske's doing the same thing almost like it's a technical issue rather than driver error, like they were pushing the limit on the limiter too much.

The judge of fact called it.
There is no right of reply with a PLP

[peckstar]

I turned to the person next to me when he entered pit lane and suggested to them that Scott was not down to speed when he hit the line, was not suprised when the penalty came up.
Such a big reduction in speed over the last car length when you push it to the edge

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by peckstar

I turned to the person next to me when he entered pit lane and suggested to them that Scott was not down to speed when he hit the line, was not suprised when the penalty came up.
Such a big reduction in speed over the last car length when you push it to the edge

The Nissans were having trouble stopping at the pit lane entry in practice on Saturday, they locked up and slid uncontrolled past the speed measure line. Lucky they didn’t get pinged. It seemed a team/car thing for them. They obviously fixed it.

[Purist]

It looked strange on the video, and the speed telemetry froze up for a second there at the critical point. It certainly looked like, if SM was getting pinged, SvG should have done also.

And why didn't they have the issue Saturday, but did on Sunday?

And no, GTR, Tim Schenken is a mere mortal man like the rest of us, so he and his decisions are not above reproach.

[Razzzor]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

The judge of fact called it.
There is no right of reply with a PLP

If it's found to have been incorrectly imposed, Roger could take it to court and argue that the penalty for putting Lowndes into the wall had already been served so suggest the post-race penalty be removed - the 1st penalty cancels it out. In all fairness, that would probably be just. Afterall they didn't penalise SM at Surfers for cutting the chicane because JW ran off on the same lap so in the stewards own words they cancelled each other out. V8SC will just argue that by their rules penalties can't be undone. But high court can overrule that probably. Look at the Bianchi case.

You never know when millions of dollars are at stake whether they'd stoop to winning the title in court. Most big corporate companies will go to court over the tiniest of things. Results aren't alwaysalways final - look at Lance Armstrong having all his 7 titles stripped several years later.

Not that Scott would want to win that way or any fans want him to win that way. I don't think Roger is the kind of guy that would take it to court... is he?

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

If it's found to have been incorrectly imposed, Roger could take it to court and argue that the penalty for putting Lowndes into the wall had already been served so suggest the post-race penalty be removed - the 1st penalty cancels it out. In all fairness, that would probably be just. Afterall they didn't penalise SM at Surfers for cutting the chicane because JW ran off on the same lap so in the stewards own words they cancelled each other out. V8SC will just argue that by their rules penalties can't be undone. But high court can overrule that probably. Look at the Bianchi case.

You never know when millions of dollars are at stake whether they'd stoop to winning the title in court. Most big corporate companies will go to court over the tiniest of things. Results aren't alwaysalways final - look at Lance Armstrong having all his 7 titles stripped several years later.

Not that Scott would want to win that way or any fans want him to win that way. I don't think Roger is the kind of guy that would take it to court... is he?

No he couldnt. The rules dont allow it.

To be clear what you are suggesting is next time there is a free kick in a football game, that after the game someone could take t to court and challenge the free kick and then that could change the result of the game, even though there are many more variables

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

Dunno about that. RC racing I've seen makes the weekend's Supercar event look tame.

Yeah agreed, my son was number 9 in Australia at one time racing RCs.
Insane stuff.

[Razzzor]

Originally Posted by peckstar

No he couldnt. The rules dont allow it.

To be clear what you are suggesting is next time there is a free kick in a football game, that after the game someone could take t to court and challenge the free kick and then that could change the result of the game, even though there are many more variables

What I'm saying is a football game grand finale where one team won, but then had a post-match penalty imposed for something which is afterwards proven they shouldn't have been penalised for (the ref got it wrong), they could then go to Supreme Court to overrule that penalty. I'm not sure if Supreme Court can overrule sporting rules... I guess no one would really know unless there's a case example. But I'd muster a guess that they can.

It probably helps that Bairdo threw the penalty in before the race ended, otherwise I bet Penske would be challenging it.

[Mixer]

Teams tried to challenge the VFL in court in the late 80s and the precedent was set then. These pseudo private organisations charters effectively nullify the right to sue under them.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Umai Naa]

If you're going to be litigeous over the outcome of a sporting event, you shouldn't be involved in it.

You go into it knowing full well that a call mightn't go your way, just as you would, getting let off the hook over something you may well have been guilty of. That's the underlying nature of competition.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by peckstar

No he couldnt. The rules dont allow it.

To be clear what you are suggesting is next time there is a free kick in a football game, that after the game someone could take t to court and challenge the free kick and then that could change the result of the game, even though there are many more variables

Of course rules developed by a sporting code don't supersede a country's legal framework.

Could a football team or or race team commence proceedings to challenge a decision made on the sporting field or the racetrack?

Absolutely.

Especially if the aggrieved party suffered a financial loss.

Would the proceedings get very far? Possibly not. At the very least the two parties would be encouraged to exhaust all possibilities under their sporting code first.

And Mixer is correct in that the court would be reluctant to be involved if the sporting code itself was seen to be fair and reasonable.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by chavez

And Mixer is correct in that the court would be reluctant to be involved if the sporting code itself was seen to be fair and reasonable.

The biggest issue here is that the rules that everybody is working under are created by elected teams representatives, so these are not "forced" on the teams, they are voted on by the teams.

As with ball sports, sometimes the umpires DO get it wrong. Personally I am not sure this applies to Newcastle, but in Cricket and Football the administrators have been trying to put systems in place to correct mistakes made, but these solutions are not universally beloved either.

[peckstar]

Newcastle’s ‘embarrassing’ Queens Wharf Tower to be demolished

was a useful reference point on the weekend

[fomoco]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Thanks for the link, seen that document before but telling point is the following from the document in your link (bold sections by me):

What that confirms, is that neither the race director nor the clerk of course decide the penalty, which is what you claimed erroneously.

I live plenty in the real world of motor sport beyond the internet thank you.

Hi Tourer, my point exactly, as a Marshall, we call in to race control, RD and CoC confer, They then send it to the stewards.
Stewards cannot walk in and start giving out penalties.

simple

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by fomoco

Hi Tourer, my point exactly, as a Marshall, we call in to race control, RD and CoC confer, They then send it to the stewards.
Stewards cannot walk in and start giving out penalties.

simple

The post you replied to mentioned how quickly the stewards made the decision on penalty, you then said that CoC & RD make that call, which is incorrect. The decision on penalty lies with the stewards as per the document you linked.

Maybe you misread the original post as you now are agreeing that the stewards make the decision on penalty.

We're probably done to death on this point anyway.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Newcastle’s ‘embarrassing’ Queens Wharf Tower to be demolished

was a useful reference point on the weekend

It was how our group could find the entry gate with the complete lack of signage pointing us there.

A shame to lose it