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17 Jan 2019, 20:32 (Ref:3876827) | #3101 | |||
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17 Jan 2019, 20:37 (Ref:3876828) | #3102 | ||
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Jordan. Or maybe Oliphant. |
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17 Jan 2019, 23:23 (Ref:3876851) | #3103 | |
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Good to see Moffat, good luck to Laser Tools for going on their own, they’ve got enough experience to make it work
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18 Jan 2019, 08:54 (Ref:3876917) | #3104 | ||
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Like him or loathe him, the series would be a poorer place without Jason Plato. |
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18 Jan 2019, 09:17 (Ref:3876920) | #3105 | |
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he was virtually invisible last year both on and off track. hardly did any interviews or public events etc. was the btcc a poorer place last year without his normal high profile presence? nope.
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18 Jan 2019, 09:19 (Ref:3876921) | #3106 | ||
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Just because some haters and cranks dislike him so much that they like to pretend the winning-est British touring car driver of all time wouldn't be missed by thousands of fans doesn't make it so... Incidentally Plato has more twitter followers than Turkington, Josh Cook, Ash Sutton, Jack Goff, Andrew Jordan, and Ash Sutton combined. |
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18 Jan 2019, 09:27 (Ref:3876922) | #3107 | |
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Yes, I think it was. I think his presence has been missed since being in a Subaru.
We digress anyway. The point made that it would be “unnoticed”, which is ludicrous... seeing as there are pages and pages of you lot frothing at the mouth to talk about him. |
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18 Jan 2019, 09:33 (Ref:3876923) | #3108 | |
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Yeah, but the racing hasn’t suffered without him being at the front. Gives the lie to those who say the series couldn’t survive without him
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
18 Jan 2019, 09:38 (Ref:3876926) | #3109 | |
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I don’t remember saying that it wouldn’t survive without him.
I said it would be a poorer place without him, which it would be. |
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18 Jan 2019, 09:50 (Ref:3876928) | #3110 | |||
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Not quite sure what that tells us. Incidentally: Chris Harris has nearly double the twitter followers of Plato, and Tiff Needell also has 30K more. The main BTCC Twitter account has 71.5K, compared to Plato's 106K. So what we might be seeing is that being a presenter on a tv show about cars brings in more twitter followers than being in the BTCC. I haven't seen Turkington, Cook, Sutton, Goff or Jordan presenting yet. |
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18 Jan 2019, 09:52 (Ref:3876929) | #3111 | ||
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18 Jan 2019, 09:56 (Ref:3876930) | #3112 | |||
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I would like to see him as he does/ did have an edge and was entertaining to watch. However we've gone two seasons with barely any sign of that Jason. |
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18 Jan 2019, 10:19 (Ref:3876932) | #3113 | |
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More than 10% of this thread so far is posts containing the word 'Plato'.
For someone with an apparently low profile, that's quite a high profile to have I tend to agree that the BTCC will be poorer when (not if, and whenever it may be) he decides to move on. He brings far more to the paddock than the cartoon character we see on the telly. |
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18 Jan 2019, 11:07 (Ref:3876938) | #3114 | |||
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18 Jan 2019, 11:15 (Ref:3876939) | #3115 | |
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Plato in no small part has contributed to no less than three manufacturers backing teams he has been involved in over his time in BTCC. Four of those cars will be on the grid next season - albeit in other hands - but - the shells got built (MG, Subaru)
How the man doesn't get respect from more BTCC fans for just that alone - I dont know. Moves like that keep the series alive - no matter how you view the shrewd, ruthlessness of his business. That's life. We can see that others in BTCC are now emulating that (bringing - or earning and facilitating manufacturer backing) and hopefully it continues to be as successful and someone can fill his shoes. We have another shell in a Corolla on the Grid, Austin brought the alfa (although not manufacturer backed - and its dissapeared from the grid), Dynamics continue their relationship with Honda bringing new shells - all good stuff. Without that practice, the BTCC will become a poorer place as you will have less new shells coming to the Grid. JP is the king of putting packages together and getting manufacturers involved. Yes of course that has benefited him over the years - but its also given us something to watch(!) with a greater variety of cars. The fact that Plato is almost "expected to succeed" by many says a lot - behind the scenes there will no doubt be equally many people trying to hinder his success. Hes done the series well in the circumstances. The man is a legend of the series - when the BTCC is in dire need of another manufacturer in the future - we can only hope someone is equally able to fulfill his legacy of bringing new shells to the series. Its quite possible it may be a poorer place without him. Last edited by OultonGold; 18 Jan 2019 at 11:21. |
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18 Jan 2019, 11:39 (Ref:3876943) | #3116 | |||
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At the current stage of his career, his value to manufacturers seems no greater than others around. If I take a look at the list of manufacturers in 2019: BMW - close partnership with WSR. Bennetts (and poss Turkington) seems to add value here. Honda - close partnership with TD. Neal family add value here. Toyota - close partnership with Speedworks. Ingram/Dick add value here. Vauxhall - close partnership with PMR. Weaver adds value here. Ford - close partnership with Motorbase. Bartrum adds value here. Audi - introduced by Rob Austin (A4). VW - introduced by PPCGB. MG - historical link to Plato. Subaru - historical link to Plato. Maybe now burnt? For my mind, his value to the BTCC is at least in decline, if not already past. If he gets involved behind the scenes, then that may be a different story. But as a driver, I still struggle to see what he adds in 2019. I also think it is a bit disingenuous to suggest that Team Dynamics are emulating Jason Plato. |
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18 Jan 2019, 12:17 (Ref:3876953) | #3117 | ||
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In Holland we've got the saying "high trees catch a lot of wind". If you're high profile and/or outspoken you're bound to be judged by people.
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18 Jan 2019, 12:39 (Ref:3876959) | #3118 | |||
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I also like the phrase 'a lot of wind' when relating to the person we are discussing (i don't want to use his name and add to the number of times it is quoted in this thread!) |
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Incognito: An Italian phrase meaning Nice Gearchange! |
18 Jan 2019, 12:45 (Ref:3876964) | #3119 | |
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18 Jan 2019, 12:51 (Ref:3876966) | #3120 | ||
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Without Plato over the years there would have been less "new" shells on the grid reducing the variety of cars. That is all i'm saying - it surprises me how a lot of BTCC "fans" cant seem to respect his contribution to the series and the current state of it. There is a minority that do. As a person, I don't like his attitude when things go wrong - however, I accept no one is perfect and I also see the politics in BTCC. I think its a bit obvious to say he wont have that influence going forward with a manufacturer (almost doesn't need to be said), he is getting older and without the benefit to him in challenging for championships - its unlikely he would bring new shells again from manufacturers (in say a team principle role for example) - but the point is, without him in the championship in the future - its "possible" his value may be missed - because he has had the profile to get lots of different shells into the Grid. People are suggesting he wont be missed - I think that's a bit naive to say influencers and entertainers like Plato wont be missed. I think the point of what i'm saying here is - because of his value he has contributed in the past, people should remember that and show him a bit more respect when it comes to talking about "value". "Close partnership" and full manufacturer backing are two very different things. Ford, Vauxhall, Audi and VW don't do a jot for this championship - those shells did not enter the series with manufacturer backing whatsoever and it should never be claimed in any way no matter how small that they were - they do not openly back this championship. That suggestion again disrespects Platos work. I think its more than fair to say Dynamics are emulating Plato - in bringing new body shells to the series (which was my point - purely the shells). They have brought 3 shells into the series since the Integra - but lets be fair whilst that is good - it has provided absolutely no variety to the series - as they are all Civics, two of which were extremely similar. Dynamics of course have no obligation to provide "variety" by being a consistent entrant (and that in itself I recognize is good for the series) - but, if they ever move away from Honda, make a deal with a different manufacturer and indeed bring a very different looking "shell" into the series - great. But Plato has convinced 3 different manufacturers in the same time frame - that's impressive and given the series and fans variety of cars. I fully expect Matt Neal to get full regalia and send off when he packs in - which is fine, as I agree with that. BUT, dynamics have not brought variety to the series in respect of body shells like Plato consistently has. In the spirit acknowledging contribution to the series (as Dynamics will deservedly get) Plato deserves a swansong from the series - for the fans (and no one else) - he probably wont get that - and it seems on the basis just because no one seems to like him. Poor show that - his contribution to the series should be recognized. I'm not saying the guy has to be given a free drive (and thats not his nature anyway) to do this - but, its a shame if this is the way he is to go out of BTCC. A massive swansong and song and dance of Platos last race (whenever that may be) absolutely WOULD bring value to the championship. Neal and Plato could end up in the gravel together with wings and doors missing and we could all have a great laugh about it - but it wont happen. If people are happy to see that slip away by saying "he hasn't got value anymore" I can accept that opinion totally - but it doesn't make it right. For his contribution to the series he should be having a lap of honour and a proper "goodbye" at his final race with every single car behind him - and perhaps that could have coincided with Neals. I'm disappointed the series and a lot of fans don't seem acknowledge his past contribution - the consensus seems to be wishing him bad and thinking he's past it. On a separate can of worms of hybrid - I'm concerned what will happen without people of the ability of Plato to bang down doors - instead of just "using the shell from last year" or "we'll buy those shells off you" mentality that is setting in on the grid. We will end up with "hybrid" cars with shells that are 5-10 years old. Last edited by OultonGold; 18 Jan 2019 at 13:12. |
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18 Jan 2019, 13:31 (Ref:3876978) | #3121 | |||
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Since the inception of NGTC regs, as far as I can tell, the only cars Plato has specifically been involved with bringing to the grid are the Subaru and the MG6. My understanding is that these were also only a UK-based backing and not from a global perspective? Over the same period, there have been 16 other models on the grid, all of which have contributed to the variety. If a car has full manufacturer support, local backing, or is just a model selected by a team, I don't see how it makes much difference to the spectators. In terms of adding variety to the grid, Rob Austin has been as valuable as Plato. There is also the issue that has been raised in some areas over the amount of Honda's that are now on the grid. This, I think, is alluded to in your comment about the 'buying shells off you' mentality. This is because Team Dynamics are consistent, and continue to develop the cars that they build. The MGs (and to a lesser extent the Subarus) are criticised as being old and losing relevance. This may be down to the fact that the entry of these cars was as part of a short-term plan, and not fully backed by a team with a long-term programme. If it is the case that Plato has driven his last lap in BTCC, then I agree that it would be a shame for this to not have been recognised - but he has only brought that on himself through his approach in the last couple of seasons. |
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18 Jan 2019, 13:33 (Ref:3876979) | #3122 | |
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18 Jan 2019, 13:34 (Ref:3876980) | #3123 | |
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I personally would be amazed if Plato did not get a deal. You have to think from a business perspective - Plato is that close of getting to 100 race wins, something which will be played over and over again moving forward in the championship (similar to the famous Soper vs Cleland clips we see over and over again). What sponsor, team or large package would not want to get involved in this?
We all know it was a BMW vs Vauxhall clash at Silverstone in 1992 and most know Mobil 1 was a key sponsor on the Vauxhall, so for Plato to struggle to get a deal together does not make sense, despite his proven record. In other news, Jelly is 99.9% certain in the Parker BMW. |
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18 Jan 2019, 13:36 (Ref:3876981) | #3124 | ||
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In general though we do appear to have had a few new forum members arrive (and some go, permanently so it would seem) who have exhibited just the behaviour you describe. I suspect that they've been booted from the other BTCC forum(s) where abuse, partisanship and a general hatred of anything "other" are rife. Hello to the new ones who happen to behave nicely! And hello to the new ones who might not. Tenths happens to be fairly sedate, as it goes - and self-policed, with a degree of success. |
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Walk a mile in someone else's shoes. When they realise you have, you'll be a mile away and you'll have their shoes. |
18 Jan 2019, 13:42 (Ref:3876984) | #3125 | |||
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However if you do feel uncomfortable with anything posted please feel free to use the post report button and we (or at least the forum mods) will take a look.[/Mod] In the meantime and FWIW I quite like Jason but agree he is getting past his sell by. I can tell you he is good fun in the briefings and especially when, as with the Goodwood MM last year, it was blooming cold. He had a hot water bottle placed strategically inside his race suit and delighted in showing us all. |
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