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Old 8 Jun 2010, 23:14 (Ref:2706983)   #31
1975DCS
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A point mentioned by chunder which I also agree with is that Rallycross must build on classes that are used in other motorsport disciplines. If you look at the succesful championships in Europe: French Div4 is equal to the popular rallycar class FA and also includes kit-cars just like in rally. Div3 is the T3F class from ice-racing and is also used in Autocross. In Belgium all the classes are build on Group A which is of course also a rallyclass. In the Nordic countries the supernational class is also used in rallies and hillclimbs. Even Euro Div1a is derived from Super1600/A6 rallycars.
The problem with that, is that every country has it's own regulations and exceptions.

Another point which could be a "problem" in the future is the current trend of downsizing and turbocharging of engines. Only Honda is fully commited to N/A, but Renault and BMW have partially turned into turbocharged engines. maybe we should consider a new type of Div 1a in the distant future: 1.2-1.4 turbocharged FWD cars...
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Old 8 Jun 2010, 23:25 (Ref:2706988)   #32
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The problem with that, is that every country has it's own regulations and exceptions.

Another point which could be a "problem" in the future is the current trend of downsizing and turbocharging of engines. Only Honda is fully commited to N/A, but Renault and BMW have partially turned into turbocharged engines. maybe we should consider a new type of Div 1a in the distant future: 1.2-1.4 turbocharged FWD cars...
We are talking about British Championship so it makes sense to go with that which is popular in Britain added with the European classes.
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Old 8 Jun 2010, 23:27 (Ref:2706990)   #33
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First off I think there must be not to many different classes, as this results in low entrylists, like Div 2 is at this moment. First off all the classes must not change to much, as did Div 2 in the past.

Supercars:

Super 1600:

Current Div 2:

European Championship:
I like your thinking! 1975DCS for president!
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Old 9 Jun 2010, 00:49 (Ref:2707018)   #34
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The main thing I think everybody has to concentrate on here is finances. I know that people have been interviewed on the TV hailing the RX150's & Swifts as a budget entry level class with a 20k price tag, but to the majority of club level drivers that is totally unattainable. These classes are fine for guys with a large disposable income who want to have a go at motorsport, and hopefully once they have had a go a decent percentage will be hooked and stick around, not disappear after a season, but these sort of people are few and far between
The thing is, we need to encourage larger numbers than this into the sport, so a class like the Stockhatch's is vital for the people who have a budget of only a few thousand and little mechanical knowledge. There just needs to be a cap on the class so that one or two drivers don't spend megabucks and walk away with it. One radical way of doing this would be a rule that states the championship winning car must be put up for sale at the end of the season for a set price, say 4k.

The current class structure of Supercars, Supermods, a one make class and Stocks is fine, but I think a bit of selective marketing aiming the right class at the right competitor is needed. It's no good trying to push at 20k class at a driver who only has a 5k budget.

It's OK saying we want new classes but we have to think who will build the cars for these classes. In fact in the past on these very pages possible new classes have been suggested, organisers have provided places for these cars, and where are they?
As for adopting European classes, history shows that this has not worked in the UK, and I don't think that will change in the foreseeable future.


Championships? It doesn't really matter how many championships you have. There used to be loads, often with four or five championships being raced for at one meeting, currently the BTRDA & MDA championships are both being competed for in the same races. The important thing is not to have too many meetings. If a driver has a budget for say six meetings, then he can only do six meetings no matter how many are scheduled on the calendar. The more meetings there are in a year the thinner the entry, regardless of how many championships there are.
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Old 9 Jun 2010, 08:40 (Ref:2707099)   #35
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[QUOTE=silver bullet;2707018] One radical way of doing this would be a rule that states the championship winning car must be put up for sale at the end of the season for a set price, say 4k.
QUOTE]



If anyone has 4k burning a whole in there pocket then you can have last years winning saxo

(Also got a 205 for sale too 1500)
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Old 9 Jun 2010, 12:35 (Ref:2707196)   #36
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Silver Bullet makes some very relevant points. As he suggests you don't necessarily need one championship just everybody working together, sharing events and venues and working to the same class structure.

If I had more time, money, mechanical knowledge and a place to store a car, I would love to have a go at rallycross. I certainly could not afford to start in RX150's or Swifts. There is very definitely a need for a budget class.

The need for people to be able to develop a car through the classes without spending a fortune is very relevant as well. There's a place for the more exotic machinery too.

The ROC tried to get 1A going and the fore runner to the current Div 2 but it just hasn't taken off. The Scandinavian's have proved that you don't need to run to Euro regs to have a thriving championship. I'd advocate five or six classes, ranging from Juniors through to Supercar. On the subject what's going on with the Juniors? Only two entries for Blyton! This needs to be the starting point for any over haul of the class structure and by the looks of it, it's the area that needs the most urgent attention.
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Old 9 Jun 2010, 14:16 (Ref:2707249)   #37
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The juniors is another example of a class showing promise then going into serious decline,and this a class that was supported by all championships.

I know past form with erc classes in this country hasnt been great but i do believe if the BRC made a commitment to div 1a it could be a success. Interestingly modifieds seem to be on the up in the more budget orientated BTRDA championship where theres a good range of cars and bloody good racing, but in the BRC they are in serious decline. Forward planning is needed, no point saying right we are going to have a 1a class as well as supermods next year because you would probably get 2 cars but if they said supermods will be replaced by 1a from 2012 then maybe it would work. Whatever happens if anything ever does its about long term planning, making a commitment and sticking to it.
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Old 9 Jun 2010, 14:46 (Ref:2707272)   #38
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I think and hope it would possible to run 1A alongside a Super Mod/National catergory. The BRC entry for Blyton is better than I thought it would be for Super Mod, with Tapscott and Turpin also attending according to Rallycross Online. I'm slightly confused as to the cost of building/purchasing a 1A car. Recent ERC coverage (which I know is'nt the most reliable) were quoting 70k. Looking on Rallycross online and looking at some of the cars in the UK, they seem a bit cheaper. What's realistic, if Hal Ridge is reading this maybe he can shed some light as he's just built one. There's a place for the larger engined rear wheel drive stuff as well, it's where you pitch it and how you regulate it though either as the secondary class to Supercar or as a cheaper alternative to Supercar and 1A.
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Old 9 Jun 2010, 19:21 (Ref:2707611)   #39
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The juniors is another example of a class showing promise then going into serious decline,and this a class that was supported by all championships.
Juniors, stock hatch and modified all suffered from a similar malaise - a few people spending a lot of money driving up costs and disheartening the average clubman. Ok its their money and they have the right to spend it but it has a deleterious effect on the sport as a whole.

You have to start from regs that keep costs affordable. Yes I think we should look at 'folkrace' regs for rallycross clubman classes (junior/stock hatch) - at the last meeting the winning cars should be put on sale for a maximum price.

Perhaps the point needs to be made more forcefully that stockhatch is mainly a novices entry level class? How would people feel about excluding drivers from stockhatch after they've won a certain number of meetings or championships, thus requiring them to step up to modified/revivals etc the following season?
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Old 9 Jun 2010, 19:37 (Ref:2707628)   #40
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Sorry but the "folkrace" idea would not work.

A) People would not want to sell their cars after just a year of racing. The time, effort and money that would of been put into the cars (even if we are talking small amounts in the motorsport world) will see drivers walking away from the championship if something like that is put in place. No way would i sell my car after a year....

B) People wont bother putting the time, effort and money into their cars knowing that they will just have to sell them at the end of the year. This will lead to poorly present cars on the same par as banger racers cars, say good bye to any tv coverage then and attracting sponsors.

Haven't we been trying to push the sport forward for the last x amount of years, putting in force "folkrace" regs would be like stepping back to the stone age.
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Old 9 Jun 2010, 22:52 (Ref:2707832)   #41
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Dont like to nit pick mate but many banger racers spend more on 1 car for a race meeting than you mite think!
But thats besides the point !
We arent all million aires so a 200k + deal to drive a car from the best and i will say the nicest man in Rallycross isnt an option for 99.9 % of us so

1 lets get real
2 sort out some regs to get new people to race
3 get the racers who are out there who want to race but are out financed (to many to name) racing again by getting a good cost effective class based around s/h regs but newer than 205s

Rallycross has lost to many good racers to other motorsports isnt it time we stopped the rot and smelt the roses?
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Old 9 Jun 2010, 22:54 (Ref:2707837)   #42
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I like your thinking! 1975DCS for president!
Well today the elections are being held (in Holland)...
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Old 9 Jun 2010, 22:56 (Ref:2707839)   #43
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Supernationals are no way to go either (as a budget class), as these are in the same price league as Div 1a...
Stockhatch racing in Holland and Belgium in the late 80's, early 90's also proved not to work: a lot of illegal tuned cars making the class expensive in the end. And there was little money for a protest against this... Maybe really cheap racing is not possible, especially not if you want it to be representive enough for television coverage...
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Old 10 Jun 2010, 08:53 (Ref:2708032)   #44
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Chris

Keep ur eyes out for the new MDA Class
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Old 10 Jun 2010, 13:04 (Ref:2708183)   #45
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New MDA Class!? Is this the BMW Mini class that was proposed a while back or something else we don't know about. Do we need anymore classes at the moment?

Trying to pull everyone's comments together, it would seem to point towards five or six classes. A junior class, a budget entry level class, some sort of resonable cost effective modified class, a 2 wheel drive class for people with a bit more to spend, supercar and possible a sixth class for either 1A, another cost effective modified class or stock 4WD.

In some respects it seems quite similar to the old BRC classes that used to be detailed on their old website, Supercar, Super Modified, Modified, Stock Hatch and Juniors!
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