Another corker AMOC today at Oulton

[pit bull]

What were they thinking...
During the red flag during the endurance practice, with the cars waiting in the pit lane we needed to find out wether all the cars had done thier driver changes ( denoted by the orange to yellow tear off strip on the car).
Seeing that a car showed an orange tear off strip, I asked the team if they had done thier driver change, to which they reply`d yes, so I told them that they should have taken the orange strip off to reveal the yellow, thier reply was " Oh we left it on because our second driver went out first"
enuff said

[Mark Mitchell]

Sadly couldn't make this meeting which is a shame as I love AMOC.

Marshalling season now over for me - aprt from the welsh dizfest in december!

[flying muppet]

I know the meeting was punctuated by incidents and inclement weather, but between 1.15 pm and the curfew (just over 5 hours) only 7 x 15 min races were run - that equates to only 1 hr 45 mins of racing!!

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by pit bull

What were they thinking...
Seeing that a car showed an orange tear off strip, I asked the team if they had done thier driver change, to which they reply`d yes, so I told them that they should have taken the orange strip off to reveal the yellow, thier reply was " Oh we left it on because our second driver went out first"
enuff said

Magic! A case of leaving their brains at home?

I love AMOC meetings but missed this one, unfortunately.

7 races does seem a little on the light side although I have been to a couple of others with that number this year. On the other hand, I've also attended a couple with an over ambitious race count. I think 8 or 9 is probably about right, but of course start and curfew times have an influence as well.

[JimW]

The first race started 21 minutes late. In part due to the organisers (they did not start getting cars out until 4 minutes before the race start was due) and in part due to some drivers who left their brains in the van.

Two green flag laps (because they had practised in the dry and it was now wet). Lead drivers rush off and some of us were thinking "silly way to do a GF lap; they will only have to wait on the startline and cool off." The next thought was "those chaps are racing, stand clear of the grid " Sure enough at least three of them failed to come to a halt on the grid so we had to wait for them to do another lap under red flags, refit brains and then the whole grid had another green flag lap. (I do wonder about the point of giving pre-war Bentleys etc. green flag laps.)

I wonder what that cost them at the subsequent interview with the Clerk?

So first race off 21 minutes late. Never made up the time. There were eight races scheduled; the last one being a 40 minute endurance with driver changes. The first attempt to start this got off at 1735 so would have finished at 1815 which is 15 minutes before Oulton's 1830 curfew. The first attempt lasted a lap and a bit (I've forgotton who fell off where). The second attempt started at 1750 so could have run full distance minus two minutes (to allow for engines being shut down by 1830). This was terminated by, I think, someone off at Old Hall(?).

The third attempt got under way at 1804 so was only ever going to run for about 22 minutes.

On the first lap a wheel came off a car at Avenue (contact or loose nuts? don't know), leaving the car stranded. Game over. The curfew saves the day, at least in terms of our domestic and comfort interests. I guess the club and competitors are now counting the cost of failing to run that last race. The club knew that the timetable was too tight from the beginning. They started off using expedients like getting the cars on the lap from assembly area to grid to use the short circuit loop to save 45 seconds for each race.

The club chose not to have provision for the use of a safety car. I think this sequence of events showed that to be poor planning.

Apart from all that (and the rain), not a bad day. Interesting cars with some decent club racing from a friendly club who always try hard.

Regards

Jim

[Hepatic]

The last race was scrapped after;

Start 1: Golf breaking down and needing a WD recovery
Start 2: car off somewhere, i think embedded in tyres and needing a recovery out of a dangerous position.
Start 3: the usual 1st lap 1st corner melee, where the No31 Elise got sideways, ended up on the grass but didn't think when coming back on to the circuit in to the middle of a pack of 30+ cars. One poor guy had no way of avoiding the Elise as it rejoined and bits went everywhere, which brought the red flag and a premature end to the day.

I really can't tell where we lost all the time, but the big hit at Old Hall did warrent the time it took to sort the barriers out. It was the first time i'd been on a post hit that hard (the gap in the armco disappeared completely) and i watched the OP guys with interest as they raced to repair the substantial damage. Have to say they did a fantastic job given the time pressures we were already under.

Fantastic day out, and defo AMOC are on my list for next year already,

[Shelagh]

We were at the Avenue and the handbrake seized on the Golf on the GF lap. We were totally unable to move it off the track (despite plentiful advice from spectators!) and requested a full lift - so why they sent Walter out originally, I do not know. If they had sent Ken up from Cascades we might have cleared with only a slight delay.

The car that was hit by the Elise on the final re-start had a completely destroyed front corner and a damaged back end and that wasn't going anywhere either!

And we'd had such a quiet day up until then!

By the way, moment of the day was the dayglo orange Lotus in the Mid-Engined race who pulled off a fantastic overtaking manouvre AROUND THE OUTSIDE at Cascades. We all agreed that this is not possible!

[Suttie]

Hi Shelagh I was with u on Avenue yesterday, with Steve if u remember I made a luvy cup of tea, this is my first time on the forum so be kind to me please, never done anything like this before. It was only my 3rd time marshalling yesterday but really enjoyed it again, cant wait for next year. my son Liam does the paddock while I am on the track, he is worse than me.

[Ian Sowman]

Originally Posted by JimW

They started off using expedients like getting the cars on the lap from assembly area to grid to use the short circuit loop to save 45 seconds for each race.

Why is that not done all the time, where a full green flag lap is not required? It would make perfect sense to do so.

[SRPhoto]

Originally Posted by Suttie

It was only my 3rd time marshalling yesterday but really enjoyed it again, cant wait for next year.

Pleased you enjoyed the day!
See you next season.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by JimW

They started off using expedients like getting the cars on the lap from assembly area to grid to use the short circuit loop to save 45 seconds for each race.

That's normal AMOC practice at Oulton. This year everybody got it right! At one meeting at the start of the first race the course car & a couple of race cars went through the Fosters loop, the rest of the race cars carried on round the full circuit......funnily enough, the same lot who appeared not to be sure just how many green flag laps they were doing this year!

Our observer suggested that we could save time by sending the cars short circuit on their 'slowing-down' lap......now that would have been interesting!

Originally Posted by Shelagh

By the way, moment of the day was the dayglo orange Lotus in the Mid-Engined race who pulled off a fantastic overtaking manouvre AROUND THE OUTSIDE at Cascades. We all agreed that this is not possible!

If that had gone wrong we'd have been picking up a lot of pieces at Lakeside!

[JimW]

Originally Posted by Ian Sowman

Why is that (using Fosters loop for convoy of cars to the grid) not done all the time, where a full green flag lap is not required? It would make perfect sense to do so.

Yes, up to a point. It might make more sense to use the full circuit and (for all but the quickest cars on slicks) count that as their "green flag" lap.

There really does not seem to be much need for tyre warming laps on most of the cars out that day.

I always thought that getting the cars from what is now used as parc ferme (near the start of the pit lane) directly onto the grid by a U-turn up the pit lane had lots to recommend it. Grid up, then Green flag lap and go. Also the cars could be got onto the grid in the dead time while the track was being cleared elsewhere. Did not always work but mostly OK.

But the point I was making was that we were into time-saving manoevers even before the timetable started to slip.

Regards

Jim

[pit bull]

Originally Posted by JimW

Two green flag laps (because they had practised in the dry and it was now wet). Lead drivers rush off and some of us were thinking "silly way to do a GF lap; they will only have to wait on the startline and cool off." The next thought was "those chaps are racing, stand clear of the grid " Sure enough at least three of them failed to come to a halt on the grid so we had to wait for them to do another lap under red flags, refit brains and then the whole grid had another green flag lap. (I do wonder about the point of giving pre-war Bentleys etc. green flag laps.)

Jim

Fortunatly we had a warning from race control, thinking that some seemed to be racing rather than green flagging, got out of the way rather sharpish, when they appeared out of deer leap, after the start of restarted green flag lap, there way 4 of us standing on the start line, stopping them.
I was somewhat suprised by a pair of overalls worn by one driver, the zip was broken and was stuck in the middle exposing his chest to where the zip was stuck and his gut from there down, even more I was suprised that his overalls had been passed by the scrutineers if at all ????

[Shelagh]

Originally Posted by JimW

There really does not seem to be much need for tyre warming laps on most of the cars out that day. Jim

There doesn't really seem to be any reason for a green flag lap for any MODERN car these days - wasn't it all linked to the need to change spark plugs (or something like that). It might be that it is now to do with "warming up" the tyres, in which case can't the formation lap "double up" (in which case you couldn't use the OP shortcut - but maybe not!).

Remember "Racing Ahead" - the BRSCC initiative to increase the amount of "racing" - that was sadly abandoned (along with the Battenberg flag) a while ago.

Well,
- With the shortage of marshals, make the meetings more dynamic (less practice, more racing) - that is bound to attract orange bodies;
AND - you get to fit more races (and so more entry fees) into the day because there is less chance of delays (prior to lunch) that mean your race is cancelled;
- Contemplate the entry - if they are historic then they might need a GF lap but is the "short route" sufficient?
- As with AMOC - they don't use a Safety Car (or Snatch if that is available), so if there is a car in the gravel it results in a "red". That is so "delaying", but they are "all good sports" and they tend to hope ("assume") that they will still get through the rest of the programme without any further problems. They are so "wanting" to give everyone value for money that they forget about how long it can take to get things back on track and it takes a while to adjust the programme to accommodate. (NB: not a criticism, just an observation.)

[McPherson Strut]

I would think that something could be done at OP to improve on 7 x 15 minute races between 1.15 and 6.30pm. Even allowing for the inevitable hold-ups it seems an excessive length of time for just 7 races.
At Knockhill yesterday we started at 9am instead of 8.30 for the first time this year and ran 8 practices and 4 races by 12.35, had a 40 minute lunch break, and ran the remaining 11 races (including 2 red flags) during the afternoon and still finished by 5.10pm. I know the circuit is a lot shorter than OP but averaging 8 minutes between chequered flag and the start of the next race is the way to speed everything up and get the marshals out of the biting wind and permanent threat of rain at a reasonable hour.
Incidentally, relating to the other thread about course cars between races, there were several occasions when there was no need to send out a course car as there were no reports to collect and good radio comms ensured everything was clear and ready to continue as quickly as possible.

[SRPhoto]

Anyone know of any online photos from the day?

[flying muppet]

Originally Posted by SRPhoto

Anyone know of any online photos from the day?

Ken Grey and Rachael Bourne were both seen on Saturday ...

[flying muppet]

Originally Posted by McPherson Strut

I would think that something could be done at OP to improve on 7 x 15 minute races between 1.15 and 6.30pm. Even allowing for the inevitable hold-ups it seems an excessive length of time for just 7 races.

From where I was there seems to be very little emphasis or impetus to move the programme along; on several occasions the cars for the next race were not convoyed to the grid until the circuit had been cleared.

Also there was the muppetry with the start of race 1 - the fastest lap of the race was in the region of 2 mins 45, so 2 green flag laps for the whole field took about 10 mins. They had already been convoyed round and then gridded (another 5-6 mins), so when the first 3 cars didn't realise that a green flag means 'start the green flag lap(s)', thinking it meant 'start racing' that took another 7-8 mins to sort out. Of course, they now needed yet another GF lap (why?) (5 mins) and this delay, combined with the slowing down lap, meant that a 15 minute race took from 1.15pm to 2.10pm to run...

[Magnet]

Quote; Our observer suggested that we could save time by sending the cars short circuit on their 'slowing-down' lap......now that would have been interesting!
Just catching up on this thread and saw Daves quote above which reminded me of the time some years ago that we tried just what Daves Observer suggested. My job was to hold back the pack with an armour plated yellow flag within the Fosters loop until we were sure that the Shell loop was clear of backmarkers, nearly resulted in a very famous Tuscan driver cutting me off at the knees!! and yes before any of you wise guys say it I would then be the height of the rest of you... ha! ha!

[insight]

The problem with one race a year clubs going to O.P. is they don't ask for advice from the regular people who run race meetings at the circuit. If they did a lot of these problems would'nt happen.