Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising Live Chat  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Sportscar & GT Racing > ACO Regulated Series


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 18 Jul 2017, 16:23 (Ref:3752460)   #4996
Scorchess
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 249
Scorchess has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sodemo View Post
Well, kinda. Except I think the rules are now skewed towards turbo charging. Nobody wants to enter a NA V8 now.
Perhaps, but that's a trend in pretty much every motorsport. Even in GTE where it should matter less.
Scorchess is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Jul 2017, 18:25 (Ref:3752509)   #4997
carbsmith
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,017
carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!
The rules have been skewed towards turbocharging ever since there's been turbocharging. NA cars have won Le Mans overall only 7 times since 1976 and last in 1999, and that includes 3 of the biggest fluke wins in the history of the race (Rondeau, Mazda, and McLaren) and 2 3.5L Group C years. Only Jaguar and BMW really beat turbo cars head to head.

Basically the only competitive NA option for endurance racing was a huge V12 so you didn't have to rev it hard or have a lot of vibration, and those are way too bulky in a modern car. 3-4L NA V8s were ideal from a chassis design and power delivery standpoint and some of those cars were super fast in sprint races on smaller tracks but they were rarely a factor in longer races. With the WEC schedule they wouldn't be as popular even under the old rules.
carbsmith is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Jul 2017, 18:31 (Ref:3752514)   #4998
Adam43
14th
20KPINAL
 
Adam43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
European Union
New Orleans
Posts: 31,833
Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorchess View Post
Perhaps, but that's a trend in pretty much every motorsport. Even in GTE where it should matter less.
And in road cars. I'm afraid it's more to do with the inherent advantage it has.
Adam43 is offline  
__________________
Why Don't You Just Switch Off Your Television Set and Go Out and Do Something Less Boring Instead?
Quote
Old 18 Jul 2017, 18:43 (Ref:3752519)   #4999
Victor_RO
Veteran
 
Victor_RO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Romania
Cluj-Napoca, Romania
Posts: 6,190
Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by carbsmith View Post
The rules have been skewed towards turbocharging ever since there's been turbocharging. NA cars have won Le Mans overall only 7 times since 1976 and last in 1999, and that includes 3 of the biggest fluke wins in the history of the race (Rondeau, Mazda, and McLaren) and 2 3.5L Group C years. Only Jaguar and BMW really beat turbo cars head to head.
8 times, both Jaguar wins ('88 and '90) were with the V12 (they never ran the turbo V6 at Le Mans).
Victor_RO is online now  
__________________
When in doubt? C4.
Quote
Old 18 Jul 2017, 19:21 (Ref:3752546)   #5000
carbsmith
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,017
carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor_RO View Post
8 times, both Jaguar wins ('88 and '90) were with the V12 (they never ran the turbo V6 at Le Mans).
Nah I just can't count to 8 apparently.
carbsmith is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Jul 2017, 19:24 (Ref:3752549)   #5001
Scorchess
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 249
Scorchess has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam43 View Post
And in road cars. I'm afraid it's more to do with the inherent advantage it has.
As am I, but several people have mentioned that there are some technologies that are banned that could help make NA engines more viable if allowed. I'm not sure if that's the case though, I don't know enough about it.
Scorchess is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Jul 2017, 19:30 (Ref:3752554)   #5002
Adam43
14th
20KPINAL
 
Adam43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
European Union
New Orleans
Posts: 31,833
Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
I'm not sure what that could be. Certainly nothing that couldn't also be applied to a turbo engine too.
Adam43 is offline  
__________________
Why Don't You Just Switch Off Your Television Set and Go Out and Do Something Less Boring Instead?
Quote
Old 18 Jul 2017, 20:54 (Ref:3752593)   #5003
TF110
Veteran
 
TF110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
United States
Posts: 13,895
TF110 is going for a new lap record!TF110 is going for a new lap record!TF110 is going for a new lap record!TF110 is going for a new lap record!TF110 is going for a new lap record!TF110 is going for a new lap record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam43 View Post
I'm not sure what that could be. Certainly nothing that couldn't also be applied to a turbo engine too.
VVT, cylinder deactivation(?) are a couple things that aren't allowed iirc.
TF110 is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Jul 2017, 21:06 (Ref:3752600)   #5004
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 7,846
chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!
The air hybrid that Audi were working on that Peugeot is also looking at for road car use. But for as much as the rules makers talk about road relevance, there's a lot of technology they've banned or flat out ignored. GM even put's VVT on pushrod engines for pete's sake!
chernaudi is online now  
Quote
Old 18 Jul 2017, 21:28 (Ref:3752608)   #5005
Flo aus N
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 94
Flo aus N should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Well, in fact all the engine technology, used in WEC is not road relevant. The ICE are built around pre chamber ignition and using Lambda numbers of 1,5-1,8. Thats never gonna happen in a road car, because with this high L-numbers it's impossible to use a catalyst and you need a catalyst in order to deal with all the NO and CH...

The diesel burning process of the R18 was also not really road relevant, given his burning process, but thats the same for F1 engines. In fact it will be really interesting how AMG will handle their AMG One Hypercar in terms of exhausts...
Flo aus N is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Jul 2017, 21:40 (Ref:3752614)   #5006
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 7,846
chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!
I'd like to see the fuel flow limits go away in both LMP1 and F1. Teams can still run the flow meters, but not for performance balancing. I think that LMP2s use something similar to the fuel flow meters to calculate estimates for fuel mileage. But I don't think they should be used for BOP or speed limiting purposes.

I think going back to air restrictors and allowing more freedom with engine layouts and hybrids would help a lot with variety in the class, and keep cost reasonable. Also restricting teams to one main bodykit that they can modify for LM or sprint races (again, think LMP900 or first generation LMP1) would also help.

I'd also like to see more emphasis on low emissions/renewable fuels, because I don't think we'll see a lot of high performance electric cars on the roads anytime soon, let alone electric cars that can go as fast as the current cars can for a whole 45-50+ minute stint, let alone be recharged in the time it takes to refuel a current car. Hence why most EV cars right now are hybrids that can go a certain distance before the engine has to kick in as a generator/main powertrain.
chernaudi is online now  
Quote
Old 18 Jul 2017, 23:35 (Ref:3752637)   #5007
Articus
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,566
Articus should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridArticus should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridArticus should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flo aus N View Post
Well, in fact all the engine technology, used in WEC is not road relevant. The ICE are built around pre chamber ignition and using Lambda numbers of 1,5-1,8. Thats never gonna happen in a road car, because with this high L-numbers it's impossible to use a catalyst and you need a catalyst in order to deal with all the NO and CH...

The diesel burning process of the R18 was also not really road relevant, given his burning process, but thats the same for F1 engines. In fact it will be really interesting how AMG will handle their AMG One Hypercar in terms of exhausts...
What if a simulation tool developed for combustion dynamics for an LMP1 engine was later used to develop and improve a road car engine. Or what if you hired an exceptional engineer to work on the LMP1 program engine, and then the program shutters, and he goes to work for the road car division (*cough* Audi *cough*)

The ways in which technology and expertise transfers to the road from these motorsports programs is sometimes direct, and other times more abstract.

Think about Honda F1 for example. The engines and power units do not fail on the dyno, but they fail on the track. They are going to learn something fundamental there, and it will perhaps find it's way back into the road vehicle development.
Articus is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Jul 2017, 23:39 (Ref:3752639)   #5008
kvenom
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,142
kvenom should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridkvenom should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Well that Juttner WEC quote in the other thread sure is worrying.
kvenom is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Jul 2017, 00:18 (Ref:3752645)   #5009
joeb
Race Official
Veteran
 
joeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
United States
Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 10,291
joeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by carbsmith View Post
The rules have been skewed towards turbocharging ever since there's been turbocharging. NA cars have won Le Mans overall only 7 times since 1976 and last in 1999, and that includes 3 of the biggest fluke wins in the history of the race (Rondeau, Mazda, and McLaren) and 2 3.5L Group C years. Only Jaguar and BMW really beat turbo cars head to head.

Basically the only competitive NA option for endurance racing was a huge V12 so you didn't have to rev it hard or have a lot of vibration, and those are way too bulky in a modern car. 3-4L NA V8s were ideal from a chassis design and power delivery standpoint and some of those cars were super fast in sprint races on smaller tracks but they were rarely a factor in longer races. With the WEC schedule they wouldn't be as popular even under the old rules.
A normally aspirated car came awfully​ close this year, just not in P1.
joeb is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Jul 2017, 03:09 (Ref:3752677)   #5010
Scorchess
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 249
Scorchess has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by kvenom View Post
Well that Juttner WEC quote in the other thread sure is worrying.
Only for people who read it wrong
Scorchess is offline  
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ACO Publish 2010 Le Mans Regulations Gingers4Justice ACO Regulated Series 88 10 Dec 2009 03:41
[LM24] Whats the future of LMP's at Le Mans?? Garrett 24 Heures du Mans 59 8 Jul 2004 15:15
[LM24] 2004 Le Mans Rules pirenzo 24 Heures du Mans 6 16 Dec 2002 18:35
[LM24] No Lister LMP 900 for Le Mans. pink69 24 Heures du Mans 1 30 Nov 2001 12:17
[LM24] Entry Rules for le Mans? Liz 24 Heures du Mans 5 5 Nov 2000 22:41


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 15:50.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2018 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.