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Old 15 Jun 2018, 12:33 (Ref:3829665)   #5731
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I hope Jim is getting credit for the new 2020 cars
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Old 15 Jun 2018, 12:34 (Ref:3829666)   #5732
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Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post



I hope Jim is getting credit for the new 2020 cars
Or MCLAREN SENNA GTR!!!!!
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Old 15 Jun 2018, 13:01 (Ref:3829668)   #5733
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Didn't figure out yet, 700hp (522kw) will be the overall power output target or just the ICE target?

As I read 200kw will be hybrid max power release, so it remains just about 320kw from ICE?

320kw are just about 430hp! this power could be easily achieved by a street turbo 2L
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Old 15 Jun 2018, 13:04 (Ref:3829670)   #5734
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Didn't figure out yet, 700hp (522kw) will be the overall power output target or just the ICE target?

As I read 200kw will be hybrid max power release, so it remains just about 320kw from ICE?

320kw are just about 430hp! this power could be easily achieved by a street turbo 2L
its ice only the 700hp from what I understand
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Old 15 Jun 2018, 13:10 (Ref:3829672)   #5735
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Well.... considering that right now maybe just nismo V6 hits that power, fuel flow will remain >100kg/h for sure.

Would be nice too see a ferrary lmp powered by a detuned 6.2 V12
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Old 15 Jun 2018, 13:56 (Ref:3829676)   #5736
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I can see we're already arguing over details, despite the lack of such details.
Quite. At the moment we have confirmation of the principle of the regulations. Seems alright to me.
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Old 15 Jun 2018, 15:50 (Ref:3829692)   #5737
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Correct me if I'm wrong but 50% thermal is MGU-H included, there is no MGU-H allowed in new rules, and even by current rules MGU-H adds to hybrid energy and is not counted in BSFC.
Thatís correct from my understanding. Letís not forget MGU-K too, as it is recovering energy that would otherwise be wasted as heat from braking, energy that was already giving the car momentum from combusted fuel. ICE combustion + MGU K/H = 50%.

Agreed with some opinions, still vague information about regulations, not complete to give full opinion. Initially it seems alright
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Old 15 Jun 2018, 16:23 (Ref:3829699)   #5738
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I think that people are whinging based on a render of what the ACO propose that the cars could look like. I have no doubt that the proposal will change a few times before it's implemented.

I also think that people are upset about certain things being spec or appearing spec. Again, that can and possibly will change.

Fact is that the ACO have to do something to drum up interest among manufacturers and privateers to keep LMP1 fresh, though I'd also hope for more stability with the rules than we've had over the period from 2009-2014 where we went though basically three formulae changes that was a drain on resources for teams.
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Old 15 Jun 2018, 16:27 (Ref:3829701)   #5739
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I'm a big fan of the new regulations. I think the super GT car look is fantastic and fits the meaning of sportscars. Not the current LMP1 cars which is formula 1 cars with a roof and fenders.

The GTP cars would fit into the Fast and Furious movies quite nicely. I do think that it could mark the end of GTE. But for good reason. Maybe at that point GT3 can be brought into the 24 hour race.

So yeah let the dominoes fall. Lets see what happens to LMP2 and GTE now.
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Old 15 Jun 2018, 16:48 (Ref:3829705)   #5740
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One thing that I do find interesting is that the ACO are still targeting approx 3:20 lap times at LM. However, the new cars might be getting a 100-150bhp power boost, but the cars are also proposed to weigh nearly 100kg more than the current Toyota LMP1s.

One does answer the question of how to make up for going from 8MJ to 5MJ max for hybrids, but how much will a 100-150kg weight gain slow the cars along with aero changes?

Regardless, I do see these cars being somewhat slower than the current cars (by how much, I don't know and we can only guess), though I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing with all the offs we've had already this week.

I do think that all classes can lose a few seconds in lap time around LM, and it probably won't effect the racing.
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Old 15 Jun 2018, 16:53 (Ref:3829709)   #5741
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Originally Posted by chernaudi View Post
One thing that I do find interesting is that the ACO are still targeting approx 3:20 lap times at LM. However, the new cars might be getting a 100-150bhp power boost, but the cars are also proposed to weigh nearly 100kg more than the current Toyota LMP1s.

One does answer the question of how to make up for going from 8MJ to 5MJ max for hybrids, but how much will a 100-150kg weight gain slow the cars along with aero changes?

Regardless, I do see these cars being somewhat slower than the current cars (by how much, I don't know and we can only guess), though I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing with all the offs we've had already this week.

I do think that all classes can lose a few seconds in lap time around LM, and it probably won't effect the racing.
The heigher weight and more drag will probably be offset a bit with the movable aero parts. If this includes air brakes etc they might be really really fast.
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Old 15 Jun 2018, 18:33 (Ref:3829726)   #5742
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Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
I can see we're already arguing over details, despite the lack of such details.
Funnily enough, that was part of the point I was trying to make, but as I once again made the mistake of debating while exhausted I can see when looking over my posts with my now-alert and awake mind that I utterly failed to make that clear.

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I think the idea looks fine. It isn't just LMPs with some funny lights like some said it'd be. To be honest, it looks like they're aiming at the P4/5 and SCG003C style.
Which makes me quite happy. I always said that the basic LMP design should look somewhat like the SGC003 - all the aero trends of current cars but with a cockpit that actually looks like a two-seater.

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Hydrogen may not be the future for road cars, but it will allow race cars to retain the noise. I'm all for that.

I think hydrogen has a bigger future for roadcars than people think. Did you know you can actually plug a tank of hydrogen into a modern engine and it will run? The cars aren't MEANT to do it, and as a result it's not exactly efficient or, more importantly, SAFE, but it will run.

Seriously, I cannot emphasize enough how UNSAFE the idea is. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT TRY IT AT HOME IF YOU ARE NOT AN EXPERT!!!!!

Producing hydrogen on a wide enough scale to fuel cars on the needed level is the only real hurdle that needs to be overcome. Get over that and it's only a matter of time before enough companies see the benefits to start investing in the infrastructure and cars specifically designed to run on it..

Electric cars have limitations when it come to long-distance travel. There's going to need to be something for that sort of use in addition to pure electric city runabouts.

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Let's call it GTP.
No. LMGTP

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Old 15 Jun 2018, 18:50 (Ref:3829731)   #5743
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Producing hydrogen on a wide enough scale to fuel cars on the needed level is the only real hurdle that needs to be overcome. Get over that and it's only a matter of time before enough companies see the benefits to start investing in the infrastructure and cars specifically designed to run on it..


Electric cars have limitations when it come to long-distance travel. There's going to need to be something for that sort of use in addition to pure electric city runabouts.
Not going to get into a full-scale debate on this, but a few things.

Unless you manage to have efficiency levels of over 100% (and thus creating free energy) then producing hydrogen will always take significantly more electricity than just running the car on the electricity anyway due to the efficiency losses during conversion, thus producing a net loss. Almost no gains have been made in hydrogen production efficiency for the best part of a decade.

Electric cars do have limitations on long-distance travel (as well as charging time and the ability to do them at home for anyone without a driveway). However, whilst hydrogen has made no efficiency gains, electric cars have gone from being able to do 50 miles on a charge and take 24 hours to recharge to doing 350 miles on a charge and doing a recharge in 1 hour. The gains they have made there are staggering. Whilst hydrogen does have some benefits, by the time it has solved the issues it has, we'll have been driving electric cars for 20 years. Like the old joke about nuclear fusion, hydrogen cars are always a decade away. Meanwhile, charging points are popping up around the world and all major car manufacturers have announced an EV.

As we move towards a renewable-powered grid where the energy is produced closer to the consumers, it makes even more sense to use electricity rather than hydrogen to power the cars, as it'll save transporting it large distances. And on that note, electricity already has a massive distribution network - something hydrogen would have to build from scratch, adapting petrol stations as they go.

I'm not advocating electric racing or saying this is the best for the environment or any of that nonsense, but realistically hydrogen road cars are not going to happen outside of a niche few vehicles.

Hydrogens strengths for motorsport fans is that it allows us to retain the ICE and therefore the sound, gears etc, which is an important part of the show, feel and atmosphere. I'd much rather watch hydrogen-powered prototypes than electric ones.
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Old 15 Jun 2018, 18:58 (Ref:3829734)   #5744
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Did the FIA or ACO ever clarify what Hydrogen car for them means? Is it the use of a fuel cell to produce electricity to drive an electric motor or the combustion of hydrogen in a "normal" engine?
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Old 15 Jun 2018, 19:06 (Ref:3829738)   #5745
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Did the FIA or ACO ever clarify what Hydrogen car for them means? Is it the use of a fuel cell to produce electricity to drive an electric motor or the combustion of hydrogen in a "normal" engine?
They didn't AFAIK. The document just says hydrogen as an alternative. Obviously when I say retains the elements of an ICE, I'm meaning burning the hydrogen as a fuel rather than a fuel cell.
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