[BTCC] BTCC 2017 Rumours & Silly Season

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

To be honest, there is so much I would like to change about the current regs I probably don't have time to list them all. However offering say 3 or 4 different wheel designs certainly wouldn't hurt.

That's because, with all due respect you're stuck in the 90s. This is what we have now, enjoy it and embrace it.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

That's because, with all due respect you're stuck in the 90s. This is what we have now, enjoy it and embrace it.

The racing is exciting, results are about as unpredictable as I can remember - unlike F1 where I correctly guessed the first eight finishers in order at Singapore before a wheel had turned in practice - so my thoughts are that the rules are working nicely.

The only drivers who I think shouldn't be on the grid are those who are dangerous - lack of awareness of their surroundings, inability to cope if a competitor car is within a few feet etc. There are two or three who fall into this category in my opinion.

Slower cars and drivers at the back aren't a problem - some competitors are less competitive than others in all forms of sporting activity - as long as they don't continually cause issues for faster cars lapping them then live and let live.

Apart from that image of a wrapped Alfa and my ill founded speculation, no crazy crazy yet... Bit early I suppose!

[Rob877]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

I can't see Gow going for this he is more likely to say that if some teams don't like it go race somewhere else. He will have a long memory when the BTCC was scratching around to even get a decent grid, I remember being at TOCA meetings at the end of '99 and start of 2000 when there was the prospect of only 9 or 10 cars on the grid, hence the National Saloon boys were asked to join and make up the grid.

The BTCC is in a golden period at the moment, but it doesn't take long for things to chance, downturn on the econonmy, ageing cars and not sufficent new build sees competitive car numbers decline, etc. Ironocally if there is a down turn, generally the 'gentleman driver' is better placed to ride it out (there is an argument that those with money, make money in a downturn) where as sponsors and driver investors may dry up.

I agree to review how the harsher penalties work but I can see some teams crying foul if they have to turn funded drivers away because they now don't have the right TOCA licence and if say you made it that you had to finish in the top 6 of a recognised suport series championship to qualify - like Ginetta Cup/ Clio Cup or a similar overseas series how many of the current runners and riders would meet that criteria..

Agree with everything you say there, it really is important to remember just how few cars we had out it in the early 00s. It was certainly enough for me to drift away from a sport I'd loved for nigh on 10 years right the way through my childhood. I didn't attend a meeting at all between 2001 and 2008.

Regarding the current crop of drivers who've shone in feeder categories, off the top of my head:
Shedden - Fiestas and Production class BTCC?
Tordoff - Clios and Porsches
Mat Jackson - Clios, BTCC Production class, Seat Cupras
Colin Turkington - Fiestas
Matt Neal (not sure on this one but think he did alright in stuff before his long BTCC career)
Jordan - Rallycross and Clios
Plato - Single seaters and Renault Spiders
Morgan - Ginettas
Ingram - Ginetta Juniors and GT4
Hill - Ginetta Juniors and GT4
Cook - Clios
Sutton - Formula Ford and Clios
Collard - Champion on short ovals (no walkover by any means), Clios and BTCC Production class
Goff - Clios
Austin - Ginettas and whole array of classic racing

These are all the drivers I would consider to be in the top echelons of the sport. Probably missed some off so please add some more if you disagree. All drivers above have run at the sharp end or won lower categories so I guess that's most of the grid.

I would guess an exception would be Moffat who came in very early, but I think has adapted really well and the main thing has never looked massively out of his depth, so it can be done!

I must say in purely hypothetical terms, if my numbers came up I would want to have a shot at trying to get to the BTCC. This would start with joining a club level single make series and seeing how I go in that. I raced Stockcars on the short ovals through my teens and in to my early 20s with a decent level of success, so I have a good idea of how what makes a race car tick (with lots to learn still, I'm sure). I would then look at moving to Clios, only if I was good enough in Club level racing. A couple of seasons in Clios and the again only if I was running at the sharp end would I attempt to get in to BTCC. I definitely wouldn't want to put myself in to a high profile series like the BTCC if I thought there was even a remote chance I would embarrass myself. Don't really see what anyone gets out of that situation other than getting to sign a few autographs and get on TV when you have your 3rd spin of a race. That's me having a bit of a dream, if only!

I'm not at all against gentleman drivers, I have the utmost respect for anyone that's got the guts to get themselves out there.

[luckn002]

http://www.btcc.net/history/manufacturer/alfa-romeo/

Found this page on the BTCC website listing Alfa Romeo as a manufacturer.

I am fairly confident it is just an unfinished page about the old Super Touring Alfas and doesn't mean anything, but this page doesn't seem to link directly to the website suggesting it is not meant to be public? It also seems odd that searching for other old BTCC manufacturers such as Austin or Renault in the same way did not bring up the similar pages and the other manufacturers listed are all currently in the BTCC.

Worth a look into or just an old page?

[Alfisti]

Genuine question this as I have zero knowledge: is their anything in the regulations whereby a car has to be a current or recent production model? E.g. Could a team build an NGTC car from say a Sierra or Vectra?

What I'm trying to understand is when for example would Power Maxed have to move on from the Chevvy or 888 from the MG or indeed Dan Welch from his Proton? Or can they be run indefinitely by the teams?

Just contemplating shiny new cars...

[jsmee]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Genuine question this as I have zero knowledge: is their anything in the regulations whereby a car has to be a current or recent production model? E.g. Could a team build an NGTC car from say a Sierra or Vectra?

What I'm trying to understand is when for example would Power Maxed have to move on from the Chevvy or 888 from the MG or indeed Dan Welch from his Proton? Or can they be run indefinitely by the teams?

Just contemplating shiny new cars...

Car must be in production and on sale in the UK at time of homologation.

So when the Chevrolet saloon was built by Andy Neate's team, the Cruze was still on sale in the UK. It may have gone out of production now, but now it is built it can race for as long as regulations allow.

[pimmy]

Originally Posted by Rob877

http://www.touringcartimes.com/2016/10/13/honda-boss-calls-for-a-merit-based-driver-licence-system-for-the-btcc/

Just thought I'd throw the link to the article up on here. For once I'm inclined to partially agree with him. I think a points based license system would be a good idea in principal, not really sure how it would be worked considering how many undoubtedly talented drivers can't get a drive in BTCC purely down to budget issues. Limiting the number of cars on the grid would be a backwards step on my opinion. I would rather give the new penalty system a year and see how that goes as I think there was a bit of an increase in driving standards once that was implemented.

While I agree that there needs to be some sort of superlicence type system, the rest of that article is just Steve chatting out of his backside as usual.

The fact that there are 31/32 cars on the grid isn't an issue in itself. If they were all being driven by quality drivers, there would be far fewer accidents. And the thing about the overalls is a total non-issue, drivers have been doing that for years, globally.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by jsmee

Car must be in production and on sale in the UK at time of homologation.

So when the Chevrolet saloon was built by Andy Neate's team, the Cruze was still on sale in the UK. It may have gone out of production now, but now it is built it can race for as long as regulations allow.

Thanks for explaining that for me :-)

[Rob877]

Originally Posted by pimmy

While I agree that there needs to be some sort of superlicence type system, the rest of that article is just Steve chatting out of his backside as usual.

The fact that there are 31/32 cars on the grid isn't an issue in itself. If they were all being driven by quality drivers, there would be far fewer accidents. And the thing about the overalls is a total non-issue, drivers have been doing that for years, globally.

LOL, I totally skimmed over that oh so important point he made about overalls. Without getting too petty, isn't he the only member of his team who doesn't wear team colours and insists turning up to every race weekend dressed as the Fonz, regardless of the weather?

[Moneyseeker]

TOCA would need to think very carefully before adopting a 'superlicence' for all the reasons I posted earlier and because it then treads on the toes of the MSA who are responsible for licencing in the UK. Gow may point out that drivers need an International C licence to drive in the BTCC anyway and are TOCA going to turn round the MSA and say that their licence system isn't stringent enough?

[thlbtcc]

Originally Posted by Rob877

LOL, I totally skimmed over that oh so important point he made about overalls. Without getting too petty, isn't he the only member of his team who doesn't wear team colours and insists turning up to every race weekend dressed as the Fonz, regardless of the weather?

Yup.

"When you see photographs of drivers with their overalls down around their waist and on the floor, to me, it’s appalling.” - You know what's worse? Steve Neal verbally abusing people in the paddock or the infamous live slating of the Silverstone marshals. Get back to counting your Rimstock sale money, Steve.

[porsche962fan]

when will Steve just retire already

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Rob877

Matt Neal (not sure on this one but think he did alright in stuff before his long BTCC career)

.

He was successful in the Group N championship.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

That's because, with all due respect you're stuck in the 90s. This is what we have now, enjoy it and embrace it.

I'm not sure where you get this impression of me. Sure, I loved supertouring, but I also loved S2000 and I really like the TCR ruleset too.

Anyway, I think that reducing the grid size is not the way to go. If measures need to be taken, then it should be in the form of a % of the pole position, like a 110% rule in order to race.

[S griffin]

Yeah I think putting in a 110% quota is a good way to deal with it if it needs to be done. I think they had it in 97 when Heward kept failing to qualify his ageing Cavalier

[redshoes]

110% rule is already part of the standard MSA and BTCC regulations, however it is a the discretion of the Clerk of the Course rather than an automatic exclusion.

[pimmy]

Drivers usually qualify well within that limit anyway. You have to be REALLY slow to be outside 110%, or even 107%.

[Rob877]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I'm not sure where you get this impression of me. Sure, I loved supertouring, but I also loved S2000 and I really like the TCR ruleset too.

Anyway, I think that reducing the grid size is not the way to go. If measures need to be taken, then it should be in the form of a % of the pole position, like a 110% rule in order to race.

Just out of interest what don't you like about NGTC? I thought it was a pretty well accepted rule set, but would be interested to hear peoples problems with it. I have my criticisms (noise of the cars being the main one) but in the main I think it does a pretty good job. For me the rules are working if you have a capacity grid, big crowds and 50% of the field at least hoping they can win. I loved Super Touring but looking back I wish things that started to happen in 1994 had been nipped in the bud and perhaps we wouldn't have seen the spectacular fall from grace Super Touring suffered in the late 90s early 00s.

[BillWiskins]

Fans of useless information rejoice! Was curious about the percentage limit. Did some maths. Maths might be wrong. Results:

Brands Indy: 107% = 51.349 - everyone comfortably within 107%

Donington National: 107% = 1:16.268 - 11 cars fail to set fast enough times, Ollie Jackson out by three thousandths, plus two set no time. (O. Jackson 1:16.271)

Thruxton: 107% = 1:21.492 - everyone comfortably within 107% except Smiley who didn't set a lap. (Lines 1:20.616)

Oulton: 107% = 1:32.302 - everyone under by miles (Lines 1:29.140).

Croft: 107% = 1:29.460 - all clear (Howard 1:26.935).

Snetterton: 107% = 2:03.721 - clear by a long way (Lines 1:59.800, Jordan no time).

Knockhill: 107% = 55.127 - clear (Jackson 53.923)

Rockingham: 107% = 1:43.082 - all good (Howard 1:41.810)

Silverstone: 107% = 1:02.403 - Michael Epps only managed a 1:10.976 on what I assume was not a 'proper' lap. Everyone else is good to go.

Brands GP: 107% = 1:38.267 - Everyone clear, but Stewart lines qualifies by one thousandth of a second (Lines 1:38.266).

So, it wouldn't have made a great difference this year apart from Donington, basically.

[thetool]

Originally Posted by BillWiskins

So, it wouldn't have made a great difference this year apart from Donington, basically.

And even then it wouldn't have been applied, as the session was weather effected. Only Kelvin Fletcher would have been in trouble, as he was no where near the pace all day. In the practice sessions in the morning everyone else was well with 107%.

[BillWiskins]

Ah, I did wonder - couldn't remember, couldn't be bothered to look it up

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by redshoes

110% rule is already part of the standard MSA and BTCC regulations, however it is a the discretion of the Clerk of the Course rather than an automatic exclusion.

Yep and it was designed to cover cars that are several seconds off the pace, the field is so close now that even the 'slow' cars are comfortably fast enough as the post on comparisons shows.

[luckn002]

From Tony Gilham's twitter:

"Planning & plotting for @DunlopBTCC 2017 All starts now Testing begins next week Bigger, better, stronger, faster & HARDer #gamechanger #who"

Time for those Team Hard Volvo surfaces to resurface?

[Bramzel]

Another year, another game changer... Someone should teach him the "under-promise, over-deliver" concept.

[BLiTZ]

Personally, I don't think Clios are quite enough of a feeder for the BTCC. Sure they promote close racing but they don't share the size and bulk of a top tier touring car. You may be able to go four abreast in a Clio, but it doesn't necessarily play out as well in an NGTC car as we've seen in recent seasons!

Back before the BTCC cannibalised the production car cup in 2000 to bolster the grids, you had a series running cars the same size as super tourers just with less power and grip, from what I can remember of the highlights that Channel 4 used to show of the old Powertour package the racing was great!

I think we need another high profile Grp N series (or whatever the equivalent spec is today) in order to give upcoming drivers experience of bigger cars, with different characteristics rather than a one-make series that doesn't quite promote such skills.