is XBOX the next dreamcast ?

[woodyracing]

is XBOX going to die like the dreamcast ?
thats one rumour from a recent games mag.

[Wrex]

It's a bit of a worry. The PS2 was always going to keep most of it's market. Unfortunately, the best consol is'nt all you need, you gotta have the games, and Sony have that angle covered.

[Damon]

It does seem to look that way at the moment. Xbox's have hardly sold at all in Japan (PSone's are still selling more today!!) and the console is only running the same games as the PS2 with the exception of Halo. That's 33 million gamers world wide that don't need an Xbox then.

[Down F0rce]

you would think that the xbox would be more popular with Rare under its wing. Xbox need one killer game, one that EVERYONE will want. Nintendo sold millions of gamecubes the same day the Mario Sunshine was released, but what could the xbox offer? Halo 2? but anyway im happy with my PS2 right now. i have ordered Burnout 2, it will arrive on satarday hopefully....maybe even today if im lucky!

[JAG]

I have a PS2 and am considering an Xbox just for Sega GT2002. However the Xbox does seem doomed. The PS2 sold 10 million in only the last 6 months, selling faster than ever before. With GT4, CM3, WRCII, Pro Evo II, Burnout II, Timeslitters II and the majority of good Xbox games coming out why would you spend maney on another console until the PS3 comes out.

[Damon]

I have TimeSplitters2 running as I write, another fine game I must say although burnout2 is more 'fun'. As FPS games go this is one of the best I have ever played! Currently giving the mapmaker a whirl, very in depth. Can't wait to try the multiplayer with a mate though, looks like a blast!

[Aysedasi]

I must admit I've never really understood why anyone with a remotely decent spec PC would want to buy a console?

[JAG]

Originally posted by Aysedasi
I must admit I've never really understood why anyone with a remotely decent spec PC would want to buy a console?

Because graphics tend to be far superior (note when each new generation of consoles is launched. Then the PC gradually catches, at great expense, over the lifetime of the console). After £400+ upgrading a PC over 4 years the next generation consoles come out which are far more powerful/effective (for games) than the best PC/graphics card.


Most importantly of course console games, in the main, are far better quality then PC games. GPL is a great game but how long has that been out, I had it when I got my old PC. Since then I've had 3 Gran Turismo games, 3 Colin McRae games, WRC, Moto GP, Burnout II, Auto Medellista plus Timesplitters 2, Pro Evolution Soccer, MGS2 etc.

Oh, and consoles are plug and play and can be used anywhere. I have bought 2 Pcs mainly for games and they are expensive, unreliable, need almost constant upgrading and crash. I now use my PC for what its best at surfing the interet and doing work.

[Sharky]

YEEEESSSSS!!!!! At last!!! Microsoft looses. So beautiful that it makes me want to cry of joy. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the Xbox (except for the fact that it's built by MS) but I do hold a serious grudge against MS.

So, I hope they loose billions and billions of dollars. It's still not enough to pay for all the damage they've caused but it's a start. Now if you'll excuse I'm going to celebrate like I haven't done in a long time.

[Sharky]

Originally posted by JAG
Because graphics tend to be far superior (note when each new generation of consoles is launched. Then the PC gradually catches, at great expense, over the lifetime of the console). After £400+ upgrading a PC over 4 years the next generation consoles come out which are far more powerful/effective (for games) than the best PC/graphics card.

That was some years back but not anymore. Proof? The Xbox graphics engine is based on the Geforce3 graphics engine. And now you have cards like the Geforce4 and radeon 8500 and 9700 series (not to mention the upcoming Nv30) that put the Geforce3 to shame.

And cost is no longer an excuse. Two months ago I bought a brand new ATI radeon 8500 (which according to 3Dmark 2001 benchmarks is about 20% faster than the Geforce3 Ti 500) for U$90 (some 64 british pounds).

And I saw some of the screenshots for Need for speed hot pursuits 2 (just to name an example) and the sceenshots for the Xbox and PS2 versions don't look half as sharp as those for the PC.

[Aysedasi]

Originally posted by JAG
Because graphics tend to be far superior

You're kidding me, surely?

I've watched games on all of the consoles - my lad had an XBox and now has a PS2. I've yet to see any game on any of them that could hold a candle to the graphics on my PC. And I'm not talking about my recently upgraded machine either.

[Down F0rce]

well it depends what kind of PC you have. if your willing to spend loads upgrading, then yea PC graphics can look better. but some PC games are half finished, the developers just make a patch if anyone starts moaning (hello Black and White) but the beauty of consoles is you dont have to have it to a certain specification, you can play EVERY game out of the box. and there often more fun, too. (hello Burnout 2) so yea im still happy with my PS2. any second now that postie will come round the corner with my copy of Burnout 2...

[Minardi fan]

The XBox will die like the Dreamcast, but with a slower, more prolonged death - Microsoft has the money to keep it going, after all. Unfortunately for MS though, the PS2 has a far greater user-base already in place, and with so many games now being released across all three major formats, what is the point in an XBox? Nintendo have the (admittedly a little disappointing) Mario, Sony have Lara and Solid Snake... XBox has nothing to compete with - even their Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance release is now unimportant as it's coming out on PS2 as well. They may have Rare under their belt but the biggest games publishers in the world - EA and Sega, are multiformat - so they gain nothing. Even lesser Xbox exclusives like the special edition of Silent Hill 2 have now been confirmed for PS2 (yay!).

Xbox will fail, slowly. And whilst I mourned the death of the beautiful sandwich maker that was the DC, I will dance on the grave of the horrid black block of cr*p that is Xbox...

As an aside, I also don't believe the GC has what it takes to outrun the PS2 either. The top quality games are too sparse - it can't survive on Mario Sunshine forever, but I suspect it can survive for a while on the inevitable Pokemon update...

[Damon]

From last friday till 8 Novemeber there are 5 must buy games for PS2 coming out (in my opinion). They are/were; Burnout2 (PS2 exclusive for now), Timesplitters2, Pro Evo Soccer2 (PS2 exclusive), Colin Mcrae Rally 3 and the incredible GTA: Vice City (PS2 exclusive). They should keep me well enough entertained until MGS2 Substance next year and of cause GT4!!

[JAG]

When I'm talking about good graphics I'm looking at things like ICO, MGS2 and GT4 that have a graphical quality that 99% of PC games don't. Its not that PCs don't have the power just that, to me it seems the big devlopment budgets on PCs go to First Person Shooters and RTS type games rather than somehing just a little bit different.

If PCs had games that I really wanted to play and werent available on consoles (other than GPL) I would get a PC for games, but after looking at a PC magazine a few weeks back the only games I saw tended to be FPS and RTS games, with only the Dooms and Unreals of this world having true great quality graphics.

As for Need for Speed, its a nice game but not upto the likes of Burnout 2, GT3, WRC 2 or CM3.

[Damon]

GT3 blew me away when I first played it. Near photo-realistic graphics running smooth as you like, I've seen nothing to rival it on PC.

[Sharky]

I've played CMR2 for PC and the graphics are far superior than those of any other console and CRM3 is yet to be released

[Aysedasi]

Well, I guess I'm not really in any position to comment, as I haven't (personally) owned a console since the Saturn , but it's the upgradability (if there is such a word) that I love about PC games. Whether it's GPL or GP3 (and I've just been given a copy of GP4), there is another world out there providing almost endless possibilities for customisation. In GPL I'm running a Gold Leaf Lotus customised with my name and special wheels etc. etc. etc. I can update the tracks I race on and I can take part in a massive online community for racing, if I wish. That's just a few reasons (aside from any graphics issues) why I would never give up my PC for any console.

[Minardi fan]

Graphically, the PS2 excels in games like GT3 A-Spec, Ico, and Ecco the Dolphin, not to mention GTA: Vice City. Silent Hill 2 is also incredible, the graphics blew me away when I first saw them but playing it through again, they really are just beautifully done. F1 2001 is also darn nifty on the visuals front.

But hey, that's not important. It's the gameplay that is...

[woodyracing]

Console graphics may look pretty flash on a TV, but the resolution is miles lower than on PC. We tend to sit closer to PC screens too. If a console was run at PC resolutions it would fill a little window.

PCs are generally aimed at the 'older' gamer and often focus on realism where consoles are generally more 'arcadey'.
I thought GT3 on PS2 looked great, but handled like an arcade game. For driving games, PC has games like GP4, F1 2001/2, Nascar4, Nascar 2002 season, TOCA 2(still one of the most realistic driving models) CM1 - 3 etc.

And PCs have the best 3Dshooters/RPG/strategy/flight sims.
Oh and online gaming (which might take off on console in 50 years)

Nothing wrong with consoles, but PCs have far more scope.

[JAG]

CMR2 on PC is the same game with smother graphics. It looks like CMR2 played on the PS2 with the anti-ailasing? option turned on to smooth out the jagies.

CMR2 compared to the 3rd game is like night and day.

PCs are aimed at an older age group but the average age of a PS2 owner is something like 25 so its not exactly a kiddies console. Although there are lots of arcade type games I would say the majority of games are aimed at late teens and adults. MGS2 and the like are not exactly like the type of platformers that used to dominate on consoles in the SNES/Megadrive days.

I though the handling in GT3 was very realistic. If you drive your normal road car its not hard to control unless you push it to the limit which is axactly what GT3 is like.

One thing I like about PC games are the online upgrades you can get for them but hopefully the PS2 will have this in the next six months. GT4 is being designed as an online game with new cars/tracks etc. being made available online.

[Sharky]

Originally posted by woodyracing
Console graphics may look pretty flash on a TV, but the resolution is miles lower than on PC. We tend to sit closer to PC screens too. If a console was run at PC resolutions it would fill a little window.

Very true. The max resolution on a TV is something like 400*400 or something like that where on PC's the minimum nowadays is 800*600 and depending on your monitor and video card yo can go to something like 2000+*1600+.

Like I mentioned before, I play most of my games 1024*768 but when I hook the PC to the TV I have to turn down the resolution both in windows and in the game I'm playing to 640*480 or else I can't even read whatever it's saying. Not to mention that on a TV you can't see any difference from 1024*768 compared to 640*480.

[AdrianG]

I actually sell all 3 consoles where I work, yes we sell more PS2s than any but the X box has sold out many times, and we have sold very few Gamecubes, we still have about half of our original allocation in stock!!

I actually own an X box and I am very impressed with it, the only disapointment is the delay between games releases after the same title is on PS2.

And if it does flop like a dreamcast I still have a DVD player anyway, so it won't be a total waste!!

[Markules]

Xbox isn't going to die like DC. In terms of global sales, there's under two million difference between the Cube and Xbox, which in the context of a market that is expected to be worth 150+ million units, is pittance.

The temptation is to see the wildfire sales of the PS2 as the standard, where in actual fact it's more a case of the PS2 doing incredibly well as opposed to the Xbox performing below par. If previous trends and current sales are anything to go by, both Cube and Xbox will rack up between 30- and 40 million units sold by 2005 - impressive considering only four consoles have broken th 30m barrier in the industry's history.

The difference is that Xbox itself won't actually make Microsoft's console division profitable, but profitability is a matter of time frame. What you have to remember is that MS are spending alot on their online service, Xbox Live, developers like Rare and possibly a major Japanese company like Capcom or Konami. That's going to cost more than PS2 could generate, let alone Xbox. However, it's like building a wind tunnel for a F1 team - it may cost a lot in the short term and the benifits may take a few years to come through, but you know that in ten years time, it'll have paid for itself in terms of your team's competitiveness. The games market is one that last generation's unwelcome presence is a perfectly acceptable player in the market the next, so in the long term, the investments MS are making will pay dividends.

As for the example of Dreamcast... as I'm sure Edge will conclude, the parent companies are the difference. The brutal truth is that Sega are a poorly run medium sized specialist company who basically proped up not only their console but their whole company by continually selling shares. Microsoft are a company who's long term commitment to the industry is driven by their desire to get a foothold in home entertainment after doing all they could do in the business software market. Considering the long term benifits that market is predicted to bring, Xbox could lose five times what it is at present and they'd still be backing it for several years to come.

And finally, PCs Vs. consoles. Computers evolve all the time. if you can take the cost of buying new chips and bits on a regular basis, PC gaming is a very rewarding form of gaming. However, PCs are inefficent gaming platforms. Again, using the popular comparison of Dreamcast. essentially, DC was a 200 mhz processor with a Power VR 2 chip. Yet it could manage games as graphically complex as Metropolis Street Racer and Ferrari Challenge - not something you could see your average P2 200 with the same chipset managing too well. However, for that, you know that it won't get an awful lot better beyond a certain point. Given that most games get cross format releases now, though, it's a choice between paying more fo a top of the range PC and getting upgrade patches, superior visuals, network play, etc and the blander visuals but lower costs of the same game through a console. provided you're willing to pay the proper amounts, you'll get great value for money from both.

[Damon]

The main trouble for Xbox as I see it is two fold. Firstly nearly 40 million PS2's have sold world wide, meaning 40 millions gamers don't need an Xbox, and secondly Japan. Apparently even the lowly PSone is selling better than the Xbox over there!