Triple Crown

[just asking]

Its not often talked about....but when you think of the history of Australian Motorsport, Group A ATCC through to todays V8 Supercars......only two drivers have manged to win the ATCC, Sandown and Bathurst in the one year.
P.Brock and C.Lowdnes....pretty amazing dont you think, that only two guys in the history of the sport have managed this!?

Tennis make a big deal of a Grandslam....should we place more emphasis on the 'triple crown' and do you think it can be done again?

[Wrighty05]

And Brock did the grandslam twice!

Nowadays it could be a 4 way grandslam like with tennis and golf - you could add Adelaide too it soon enough.

[D.R.T.]

But to win the slam, at Adelaide do you have to win both races, win overall or just win the Sunday race.

[just asking]

good question D.R.T, you would think the weekend wouldnt you?

If you won the event, you would be in the running.

[RotorFan]

Well winning the event means winning Race 2 at Adelaide currently.

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by RotorFan

Well winning the event means winning Race 2 at Adelaide currently.

May as well not run Race 1 then, charge thru from the back in race 2 and save the race 1 tyres for later in the season.

Pretty easy weekend I reckon.

[racer69]

Adelaide with the weird overall format makes it too difficult, so leave it out.

Rick Kelly came close to scoring the Triple Crown last year, winning the ATCC, and narrowly losing Sandown & Bathurst.

They'd probably make a big deal out of it when it happens again. It's only ever happened 3 times, 1978, 1980 & 1996 afterall.

[just asking]

Racer, you say "theyd probably make a big deal out of it when it happens again".

Do you think they should make a big deal out of it? Is it a big deal?

I think it is.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by racer69

Adelaide with the weird overall format makes it too difficult, so leave it out.

I concur

[racer69]

Originally Posted by just asking

Racer, you say "theyd probably make a big deal out of it when it happens again".

Do you think they should make a big deal out of it? Is it a big deal?

I think it is.

I think it is too, and it's a pity more isn't made of it.

I was just saying the fact it barely gets mentioned is probably because it hasn't happened in so long, has only happened 3 times, and most of all because it happened in the "rarely spoken of by VESA" pre-1997 era.

[Chatters]

I have to admit, at Phillip Island at the start of Race 3 when Lowndes and Kelly were tied on points I don't remember Leigh Diffey or Neil Crompton mentioning the "Triple Crown". I think it is a pretty massive acheivement that nowadays goes unnoticed if or when it was to occur.

There definately needs to be a bigger emphasis on it, because it is very hard to do and very rewarding to do it. A special trophy, award, $$$ prize (Ha! Like that'll happen )...

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Chatters

I have to admit, at Phillip Island at the start of Race 3 when Lowndes and Kelly were tied on points I don't remember Leigh Diffey or Neil Crompton mentioning the "Triple Crown".

Why would they have, neither competitor was able to the triple crown by winning the championship.

Without being to cynical, is Vesa likely to let someone off with the triple crown? Doesnt fit in with a parity formula does it?

[M-Kart]

[QUOTE=D.R.T.]Why would they have, neither competitor was able to the triple crown by winning the championship.
QUOTE]

I seem to remebre it too - i think the cars were on the grid, and with RK & CL on equal points, one of them made a comment to the effect of

"One of these guys is a young up-and-comer, claimed by some to be the futre of the sport, the other is one of only 2 drivers to ever claim the triple crown - Sandown, Bathurst & the Championship - which he did 10 years ago. The only other - the great Peter Brock"

It was a comment along the lines of that, from memory, it was just a time filler they used to build tension while the last few cars formed at the end of the sighting lap.

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by racer69

Adelaide with the weird overall format makes it too difficult, so leave it out.

Why would you leave out arguably the most difficult individual weekend of the year to win. Sandown or Bathurst you rely on another driver for assistance, but to win Clipsal you do it alone and usually under the most stressful conditions.

[Senna05]

Not many people appart from Brock, Skaife and Lowndes have won the "double crown" of the championship and bathurst!

I may have missed a few (please don't crucify me, as Moffat may have done so) but thats pretty rare too.

[racer69]

I won't crucify you, but other 'double crown' winners you mention include Richards (1990), Johnson (1989 & 1981) & Moffat (1977)

John Bowe did another sort of 'double crown' in 1995, winning the Championship and then the Sandown 500.

Originally Posted by sizzle

Why would you leave out arguably the most difficult individual weekend of the year to win. Sandown or Bathurst you rely on another driver for assistance, but to win Clipsal you do it alone and usually under the most stressful conditions.

Because as mentioned above, who really is the winner of the Clipsal 500 (i know the winner of Race 2 is officially the winner), the guy who wins Race 2 (who could have DNF'd early in Race 1), or the guy who just amasses the most points. It's too much hassle to bother.

And besides, the Adelaide race is a baby compared to the other three. The Sandown & Bathurst enduro's have been around (both in various guises) for over 40 years, while the ATCC is into it's 48th season this year.

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by just asking

that only two guys in the history of the sport have managed this!?

History is hardly created in 20 years when the Bathurst has been going for 40+ years (the event even longer), the ATCC 45 years, Sandown about the same.

I accept you qualified your original claim but then took a quantum leap ....

[Henry]

Originally Posted by Senna05

Not many people appart from Brock, Skaife and Lowndes have won the "double crown" of the championship and bathurst!

I may have missed a few (please don't crucify me, as Moffat may have done so) but thats pretty rare too.

For the record, Moffat did it in 1973, and 1977... and won his share of Sandown enduroes too! Dick Johnson managed it twice as well, in 1981 and 1989... and also the Sandown/Bathurst quinella in 1994.

Will have to have a think, as Bob Jane might've done it too at some stage in the early sixties.

Anyhow, back in the dark ages, the enduroes and the ATCC were run under two differing categories, and not all drivers bothered contesting both series regularly.

Theoretically, it should be easier in this day and age, as the cars are homologated for absolute parity... they've tried to negate any differences in the performance characteristcs... where in the old days, different cars could expect to shine on different circuits.

Unless you were in an HDT Commodore of course ... If Brock had focussed on the domestic series in 1984, he mght've carried off the whole shebang that year too!

[racer69]

Considering the ease with which Brock won the opening two rounds that year, i'd say that is quite likely he would have.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by sizzle

Why would you leave out arguably the most difficult individual weekend of the year to win. Sandown or Bathurst you rely on another driver for assistance, but to win Clipsal you do it alone and usually under the most stressful conditions.

But to win Clipsal at the moment all you have to do is win a 250 km race on a Sunday arvo compared to 1000 km race albeit with two drivers at Bathurst.

[FPV GTHO]

What are you guys talking about Clipsal being complicated? The winner is the one with the most points. If its a tie, then its whoever was highest placed in the final race. At Adelaide, its race 2. Everywhere else, its race 3.

[garbo6]

The championship leader at the end of the Clipsal is the one with the most points.

The official winner of Clipsal is the winner of Race 2.

[Falcadore]

yeah but the history of the Sandown 500 is so varied, some years it wasn't the same category, heck the ATCC and Bathurst have only been the same category since 1973.

Plus some years the Sandown 500 entry has been pitiful, like the early 90's. The mid 90's the field was bolsterred by production cars, then early 2000's it wasn't even a touring car race but for Nations Cup type production sports cars. Plus there is also the Queensland 500 to consider.

I just don't think the Sandown 500 stacks up to the ATCC and Bathurst in stature. Beside the moment someone does win an ATCC/Bathurst/Adelaide year, the triple crown phrase will come out.

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

What are you guys talking about Clipsal being complicated? The winner is the one with the most points. If its a tie, then its whoever was highest placed in the final race. At Adelaide, its race 2. Everywhere else, its race 3.

At the first Adelaide 500 this was true. At the second Adelaide 500, Garth Tander collected the most points but he didn't win the second race so while an irrate GRM crew looked on the trophy was handed to Mark Skaife, setting the trend for future Adelaide events where it became the only multi-race round not to award the points winner the trophy.

[Senna05]

From what I've gthered from commentary over the years, it's a 500km race split into two phases, with points awarded in two hauls. This means the person to cross the line first on Sunday is the first over the line with 500k's.

Screwey in concept, however I can see that it makes sense (somewhat...)