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View Poll Results: Which cars max 3.5litres
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Old 18 Jun 2009, 10:24 (Ref:2485830)   #26
Peter Mallett
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I know it would perhaps be difficult in the current financial climate but there always is the possibility of sponsorship, especially with a "different" race. Reallistically if it is going to be a 4/6 hour race it does need to be at a track at least 2 miles round. Spa would of course be fantastic but perhaps it should be kept to this country both for sponsorship reasons and the fact that some drivers would not want to go abroad or may only have a Nat "B" licence. I will have a word with a friend who has organised stuff like this before. If interest is ongoing we could put a poll out on it. All speculation I know but well done Podd for bringing the subject up.
Agreed re track length. We then must consider what's available and it comes down to (IMO) Silverstone International, Donington National(?), Snetterton and I think possibly Angelssey. Anything in Ireland? My reasoning is noise issues.

If it were to run to CSCC regs then it does open up the opportunities for interesting interpretations of historic cars.
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Old 18 Jun 2009, 12:06 (Ref:2485866)   #27
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andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It would be great to have an opportunity to race at such an event - I'll never have car elible for an FIA type event & even Production S1 of Britcar is probably beyond me so something aimed at a lower level of clubman would be great. I agree with Peter, something along the lines of the CSCC Swinging Sixties, Tin Tops & Future Classics regs (perhaps with a suitable date cut off - 1990?) would cover a host of cars without flooding the entry with bewinged monsters!!!.

I would be in favour of Anglesey because its is one of my favourite circuits in the UK now and is probably cheaper to hire than most others. The circuit seems to have sometimes struggled for entries at some meetings but perhaps people would be persuaded to attend a 6 hour race. The downside of anglesy is that there's no pit garages. It does host 6 hour rounds of the "FunCup" so must be used to the endurance race requirements, though.

Some practical questions, though. What happens about refuelling, ie would cars need dry break refuelling systems & "bag tanks" (might be difficult/ expensive to fit to the sort of cars i think we are envisaging attending). Similarly, what about tyre changes or do we expect tyres to last the race??
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Old 18 Jun 2009, 12:17 (Ref:2485873)   #28
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The problem with Anglesey is that for most of us it's at the other end of the world. However if the price is correct I could be persuaded and if the CSCC had to get involved then I could even find a car that they would allow me to use.
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Old 18 Jun 2009, 12:36 (Ref:2485882)   #29
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Agreed re track length. We then must consider what's available and it comes down to (IMO) Silverstone International, Donington National(?), Snetterton and I think possibly Angelssey. Anything in Ireland? My reasoning is noise issues.
TT circuit on the Isle of Man. Now there is a dream.
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Old 18 Jun 2009, 13:28 (Ref:2485913)   #30
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"What happens about refuelling"

At the Britcar 24 hour at Silverstone(which was run on a Nat B) they had standard fuel pumps set up in what is usally the assembely area and you accessed via the service road after Bridge.
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Old 18 Jun 2009, 13:30 (Ref:2485914)   #31
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"What happens about refuelling"

At the Britcar 24 hour at Silverstone(which was run on a Nat B) they had standard fuel pumps set up in what is usally the assembely area and you accessed via the service road after Bridge.

Yes, but they also had "bag tanks" and breathers.
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Old 18 Jun 2009, 14:10 (Ref:2485932)   #32
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You always need a breather but the FIA requirement is for a foam filled tank. You can use a standard tank if you wish just fill it with foam.
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Old 18 Jun 2009, 16:39 (Ref:2485988)   #33
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Back on the max driver time aspect, if it was 3hrs on 3hrs off how about the 6 hour split into 2 with other races inbetween. Would that take away the 'glamour'? Plus it would allow cars that have technical difficulties a chance to resume racing if a repair is made albeit with time/laps lost. Don't forget that if we're not talking spa then I'm guessing the max grid size will be in the thirties............we could end up with only a few cars circulating for a couple of hours which would be tedious.
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Old 18 Jun 2009, 16:57 (Ref:2485997)   #34
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
As was mentioned earlier,in order to have a decent sized grid,the circuit length would need to be in excess of 2 miles in length,again limiting the choice.Two three hours over a weekend could work though.
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Old 18 Jun 2009, 17:06 (Ref:2486003)   #35
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Moosehead should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Anglesey International Circuit is 2.1miles and can start 38, oh and has 2 pitlanes in that configuration.
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Old 18 Jun 2009, 17:10 (Ref:2486005)   #36
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But I thought that all the Autosport staff got paid John.
I think that you may be confusing me with my offspring! However, those of you who don't read it may be pleased to know that he gives Historic racing quite a plug in his editorial this week.
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Old 18 Jun 2009, 17:25 (Ref:2486011)   #37
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Old 18 Jun 2009, 17:33 (Ref:2486015)   #38
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Hi Podd, sorry I couldn't make it to Oulton, would definately be up for this, as I am sure a lot of people would. FWIW, the length of track time IMHO would make up for long distance travel to the circuit for all involved.
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Old 20 Jun 2009, 17:57 (Ref:2487077)   #39
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I`d be interested.

What about Oulton Park International?
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Old 22 Jun 2009, 10:20 (Ref:2488170)   #40
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andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
What about a relay format to partially save older cars from the rigours of a 6 hour race, & to ease concerns over refuelling/ tyre changes etc? I know there's the Birkett but I'm thinking more of teams of two or three in order to differentiate.
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Old 22 Jun 2009, 10:40 (Ref:2488181)   #41
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Cars compete in the Spa 6hrs and re fuel with no major, or even minor, concerns. As long as there are pumps and fire marshals it can be done.
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Old 22 Jun 2009, 10:50 (Ref:2488187)   #42
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Yes Peter but they have both the space and configuration which makes it both safe and practical. Apart from Silverstone (as configured for the Britcar 24 hours) and maybe current Donington (if you used the Melbourne loop) I can't immediately think of any other UK circuit that could accomodate it. Plus there's a big aversion in the UK to permit races with refuelling - in Europe they seem to have a more 'creative' attitude!
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Old 22 Jun 2009, 10:54 (Ref:2488191)   #43
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
For "Creative" read,could'nt give a toss. Like the photograph from one event at Spa fuel pumps last year with a marshal with a ciggy on the go!
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Old 22 Jun 2009, 11:02 (Ref:2488199)   #44
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For "Creative" read,could'nt give a toss.
Your words - not mine!
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Old 22 Jun 2009, 11:15 (Ref:2488208)   #45
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andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I wasn't so concerned about the refuelling issues - although anything that can be done to save on refuelling infrastructure costs a la Britcar 24 hrs is a good thing - but more the ability of a lot of club racing cars to last 6 hours without needing fettling. And I would be hoping for an event that a large proportion of budget conscious clubman can enter. A relay format may just give cars (and drivers) enough time to cool down, be checked over & tightened up for everyone's benefit, without needing the help of a full on professional team in support.
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Old 22 Jun 2009, 11:32 (Ref:2488218)   #46
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In which case the 4 hour race the MGCC runs at Snett in October could be your cup of tes.
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Old 22 Jun 2009, 11:54 (Ref:2488235)   #47
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I wasn't so concerned about the refuelling issues - although anything that can be done to save on refuelling infrastructure costs a la Britcar 24 hrs is a good thing -
Trouble is, I thought this was an alternative 6hrs thread, not an alternative Birkett thread.

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but more the ability of a lot of club racing cars to last 6 hours without needing fettling.
We are talking about club racing. However in a relay the cars only have to last one or two hours surely?

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And I would be hoping for an event that a large proportion of budget conscious clubman can enter. A relay format may just give cars (and drivers) enough time to cool down, be checked over & tightened up for everyone's benefit, without needing the help of a full on professional team in support.
Hmm,

Half the fun of endurance racing is making sure the car is fettled and ready to complete the race (Terry please take note). The other half is the satisfaction of competing. Frankly a relay is of little interest to me, which is why I've never bothered about the Birkett. As to the full time professional team. Perhaps that's where I'm going wrong. Must discuss this with the management.

Yes John I think Silverstone would be ideal which is why I originally proposed the International circuit. Although I do think Snetterton could cope if the run to the pumps was managed properly.
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Old 22 Jun 2009, 11:57 (Ref:2488241)   #48
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andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Peter, I agree with all your comments. I'm just putting alternative views that have been expressed to me in the public domain to get the maximum comment going, and to cover all the angles. Personally, I would prefer an "alternative 6 hour" event, too.
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Old 22 Jun 2009, 12:23 (Ref:2488267)   #49
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Yes John I think Silverstone would be ideal which is why I originally proposed the International circuit. Although I do think Snetterton could cope if the run to the pumps was managed properly.
Yes Peter - I think Snetterton could be made to work by using the collecting area or, better still, the parc ferme area.....although entry and exit (particularly the exit from the parc ferme area) into the pit lane would have to be well controlled/marshalled.
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Old 22 Jun 2009, 12:29 (Ref:2488273)   #50
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
We used Snetterton for the Birkett years ago,the pumps were not a problem,just the spectators. If a re-fueling lane were to be coned off and one garage was reserved for rejoining the track?
I really must remember to pack my crystal ball for Spa this year.
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