[Team] McLaren - can they compete?

[chillibowl]

the Vuse logos no?

just my personal opinion, but i dont distinguish between vape cigs or rolled tobacco. actually think i dislike the vape stuff more as it seem to be primarily targeted towards a new and younger market.

[Aysedasi]

In that case I wholly disagree and you can probably guess why. I was a smoker for many years but changed to vaping 7 years ago. Not distinguishing between the two is for me, one of life's annoying things. Whatever you may think of vaping, its not cigarette smoking and vapes are not cigarettes and vaping is not tobacco-related. Oh, and I'm 64....

Rant over - let's move on.....

[Mike Harte]

Ayse, although I appreciate that you gave up smoking and took up vaping, and I know that vaping is not as harmful as, say, cigarette smoking. However, most vaping products do use nicotine and other substances that are addictive and not particularly good for one.

So, from my perspective, I believe that if tobacco is banned, so should vaping. And I witnessed hospital staff having to provide nicotine patches to vapers last year during my extended stay as patients were forbidden to leave their wards, so they couldn't go outside for a quick drag. Same applied to smokers, obviously.

The ridiculous thing is that doctors, nurses and admin staff were still able to pop outside to satisfy their cravings, regretfully including my surgeon.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

In that case I wholly disagree and you can probably guess why. I was a smoker for many years but changed to vaping 7 years ago. Not distinguishing between the two is for me, one of life's annoying things. Whatever you may think of vaping, its not cigarette smoking and vapes are not cigarettes and vaping is not tobacco-related. Oh, and I'm 64....

Rant over - let's move on.....

thats a fair distinction. vape products dont necessarily have any tobacco in them.

was more trying to talk about the advertising side of things, specifically advertising a product overseas while not really being allowed to advertise for that same product in their home communities.

these companies have a terrible track record in how they have advertised their other products (specifically to children and young adults) so i do support there being major restrictions in how they promote any of their replacement products.

but honestly, its probably just more disappointment that the team i like the most is really no different then any other corporation with their hand out to anyone who will put money in it.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

thats a fair distinction. vape products dont necessarily have any tobacco in them.

was more trying to talk about the advertising side of things, specifically advertising a product overseas while not really being allowed to advertise for that same product in their home communities.

these companies have a terrible track record in how they have advertised their other products (specifically to children and young adults) so i do support there being major restrictions in how they promote any of their replacement products.

but honestly, its probably just more disappointment that the team i like the most is really no different then any other corporation with their hand out to anyone who will put money in it.

Vuse must be allowed to advertise in the US,as well as overseas. The logo is on the sidepod of one of the McLaren IndyCars.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Vuse must be allowed to advertise in the US,as well as overseas. The logo is on the sidepod of one of the McLaren IndyCars.

I can't speak for outside of the US, but I don't think US law regulates advertisements of vape products (as long as they are not burning tobacco). Rather it is probably more about nicotine delivery. Of course my personal opinion is we will eventually see that vaping is unhealthy and not a good substitute for tobacco.

Richard

[chillibowl]

Probably pretty similar in Canada then or at least moving in the direction to allow.

Things are changing so my bad.:

Still a bit disappointed that Mclaren take this money...had hoped, naively i suppose, that the budget cap would have led to the teams being more selective with their sponsorship deals.

Anyways, I'll take some advice, end my rants, and also move on.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

thats a fair distinction. vape products dont necessarily have any tobacco in them.

I'm not going to bang on about it but vape products may have nicotine in them, but not all of them and I know of no vape products that contain tobacco. It may be a fine distinction to some as I obviously know that nicotine is the addictive element. Everyone is entitled to their views and I may just be being pedantic I know..... I'm also derailing the thread through my pickiness......

[crmalcolm]

I think it's only right, given the discussions about about the legitimacy of venues, to mention the artist.

https://www.dazeddigital.com/life-cu...ing-livery-art

Tantawy is an exciting emerging artist – born in Cairo and based in Dubai, her creative practice comes from years experimenting in the arts, includes both traditional and contemporary techniques, from oil painting to street art and spraypainting.

Tantawy shares that her love of motorsport was first inspired by watching Brazilian racing driver and three-time Formula One champion Ayrton Senna. “It was Senna who got me hooked on F1 – his passion, his fearlessness, and his focus. I’ve lost count of how many times I've watched that documentary, but I was just drawn to him, the sport and the way he made it so relatable, and human with the way he reacted.”

“Also, my son has raced on our local motocross track since he was six – he’s been doing really well and has even won a few championships!” she adds.

[GTRMagic]

Interesting video shared on YouTube in recent days…

Here

It absolutely makes you wonder how McLaren got it sooooo wrong with the return to Honda…

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Interesting video shared on YouTube in recent days…

Here

It absolutely makes you wonder how McLaren got it sooooo wrong with the return to Honda…

Great interview.
But hearing Steve talking about what things were like when he went to Ferrari and what was happening back at McLaren when he returned there makes it clear that the atmosphere in the team is reflected on the success on the track.

It also takes time to build a team. In every successful team, what the internal environment is like in the years leading up to a successful year, is a critical component leading to success.
So what was going on at McLaren during the hybrid Honda era?

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Great interview.
But hearing Steve talking about what things were like when he went to Ferrari and what was happening back at McLaren when he returned there makes it clear that the atmosphere in the team is reflected on the success on the track.

It also takes time to build a team. In every successful team, what the internal environment is like in the years leading up to a successful year, is a critical component leading to success.
So what was going on at McLaren during the hybrid Honda era?

It is absolutely hard to fathom.. especially if the team players themselves were so up in arms at the book author’s take on a very innovative and thrilling time to be in F1, and at McLaren especially, with many people making light work. The boys and girls who did the actual work know what’s what.

The Haynes manual sounds like an interesting read… time for some (online) shopping..

The longer interview was put up yesterday too.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Great interview.
But hearing Steve talking about what things were like when he went to Ferrari and what was happening back at McLaren when he returned there makes it clear that the atmosphere in the team is reflected on the success on the track.

It also takes time to build a team. In every successful team, what the internal environment is like in the years leading up to a successful year, is a critical component leading to success.
So what was going on at McLaren during the hybrid Honda era?

If you watch the Ron Dennis interview on Youtube, he states that he was not prepared to spend all the money in the F1 team. I think that this lack of "commitment" infected the racing side of McLaren.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by wnut

If you watch the Ron Dennis interview on Youtube, he states that he was not prepared to spend all the money in the F1 team. I think that this lack of "commitment" infected the racing side of McLaren.

Throw in the fact that they had lost the Vodafone sponsorship for 2014 and had no naming / primary sponsorship of note, entered as plain McLaren (/Mercedes).

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by wnut

If you watch the Ron Dennis interview on Youtube, he states that he was not prepared to spend all the money in the F1 team. I think that this lack of "commitment" infected the racing side of McLaren.

I can remember when he came back in as team principal (having stepped aside after the Ferrari-gate drama) and they were looking for new primary sponsors he made the comment that sponsors weren't prepared to pay the price required to be with a top level team....

it just seemed to me that he was out of step with how 'his team' had fallen off the pointy end of the 'Marlboro' and 'West' days. They struggled for wins and even podiums, and sponsors were no longer tobacco companies who had almost bottomless budgets....

[wnut]

Both good points, wonder if the intention was to devalue the company
(Value = Turnover or Profit x Multiplier) in order to gain control of the
Team / payout other partners for less money ?

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

I can remember when he came back in as team principal (having stepped aside after the Ferrari-gate drama) and they were looking for new primary sponsors he made the comment that sponsors weren't prepared to pay the price required to be with a top level team....

it just seemed to me that he was out of step with how 'his team' had fallen off the pointy end of the 'Marlboro' and 'West' days. They struggled for wins and even podiums, and sponsors were no longer tobacco companies who had almost bottomless budgets....

ROI is probably less important to a cigarette company when the motor racing team is the primary form of marketing communications.
F1 works globally... lots of eyeballs... lots of brand recognition from similar design cars... best people... best teams... lots of airtime...

Then you cant advertise tobacco products, well you now can if you call them vapes..., and ROI is back on the table... and the dollars/euros/pounds/drachmas are not as easily discovered.

Unless you are an energy drink company with a similar anti-ROI model, at least initially, until success becomes so strong, the payments for constructor success and subsidiary sponsors contributes significantly to running Team A while Team B keeps other non sugar water brands alive..

Whats next? Who's next? Who is the next big F1 investor?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Colton Herta has been signed to a testing and development deal by McLaren.

https://racer.com/2022/03/12/mclaren...elopment-deal/

[broadrun96]

Racing for the enemy is he? Guessing the Colton/McLaren meetings won't occur in the AMSP hauler Indy weekends

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Racing for the enemy is he? Guessing the Colton/McLaren meetings won't occur in the AMSP hauler Indy weekends

Apparently Michael Andretti is ok with the deal.

https://racer.com/2022/03/12/andrett...laren-f1-deal/

[S griffin]

Nice to see Colton finally getting an F1 deal, even if it’s only test and development

[GT6]

Not a good quali session for them, lets hope race pace is better

[Hawkwood]

Originally Posted by GT6

Not a good quali session for them, lets hope race pace is better

Well...

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by GT6

Not a good quali session for them, lets hope race pace is better

Sadly very much not.....Painful to watch.

[V8 Fireworks]

McLaren can compete

Should the title be changed back?

I'm not sure what the plan is for Key & Seidl. Seidl has announced an "investigation" into the car's poor performance.

There is perhaps still setup work to unlock before necessarily giving up this car and drawing up a B-spec sidepods & floor (perhaps a Ferrari copy)?

McLaren have quite an unusual floor design around the venturi inlets, so I do think it would be a good idea for them to try out the Ferrari style floor & sidepoods in CFD and if a Ferrari copy design is more promising they could forget upgrading the current car and focus on bringing out a B-spec with different bodywork for after the summer break...

It could be that McLaren's performance targets were too low, so it could be that they met their targets in Barcelona and were happy, but then came to Bahrain only to find everyone else started going much faster!

James Key:

The car itself as a platform is working well. Mechanically it’s fine, Aerodynamically it does what it’s supposed to do.

The drivers aren’t finding the extremes that we had in last year’s car, in terms of balance and difficulty. It’s a lot more consistent in that respect.

We need more grip – aerodynamically, mechanically.

Andreas Seidl:

We miss around a second to Mercedes. That’s the best reference for us we can have. And that’s what we’re focusing on as a team.

Back at the MTC, we’ll kick-off a detailed investigation and analysis of our performance here in Bahrain today.

Lando Norris:

It's a sin to complain about the engines, because Mercedes finished the race in 3rd and 4th places. But it certainly doesn’t help—I think we definitely don’t have enough power compared to the rest of the guys.

References:
https://the-race.com/formula-1/is-mc...p-or-a-crisis/
https://www.mclaren.com/racing/2022/...ix-qualifying/