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Old 21 Jan 2012, 21:42 (Ref:3015132)   #16
ghinzani
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ghinzani should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridghinzani should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I'm pretty sure it was Depailler, around 1978/9 iirc.he had been given a test run in a Formula E or somesuch, was in Autosport so should be out there sonewhere.
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Old 22 Jan 2012, 10:40 (Ref:3015257)   #17
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It'd have to be confirmed by one of the older Australian posters on here. I was told a story about the first Australian GP at Adelaide in '85, Superkarts were initially scheduled to a support race there. That was until their first practice session where it turned out they were faster than the GP cars! Awaiting confirmation.
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Old 22 Jan 2012, 16:44 (Ref:3015364)   #18
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It'd have to be confirmed by one of the older Australian posters on here. I was told a story about the first Australian GP at Adelaide in '85, Superkarts were initially scheduled to a support race there. That was until their first practice session where it turned out they were faster than the GP cars! Awaiting confirmation.
Hhhhmmm... I wouldn't be so sure about that. Adelaide has some long straights, one in particular, and the turbo F1s back then would have been monumentally quick down it. A Superkart wouldn't have been able to make up the difference around the twiddly bits.

Still it's a good reason to watch one of the greatest kart racers of all time shove a mega lap in that year in the Lotus.

Qualifying at Adelaide in 1985.
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Old 22 Jan 2012, 17:27 (Ref:3015382)   #19
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I have in the back of my mind that Gerry Marshall lapped Oulton park in the early 70s quicker in his 2.5lt Magnum than Fangio in a 250F Maserati. W£hich basically shows the relative speed improvement, mostly from tyres, over the years.
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Old 22 Jan 2012, 22:25 (Ref:3015493)   #20
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It'd have to be confirmed by one of the older Australian posters on here. I was told a story about the first Australian GP at Adelaide in '85, Superkarts were initially scheduled to a support race there. That was until their first practice session where it turned out they were faster than the GP cars! Awaiting confirmation.
One of those 'court a fish this big' stories I think! The Formula E (or 250 International) lap record at the Adelaide GP circuit stands at 1min39.5, set in 1989 (cannot recall driver's name....Dutch guy I think) Same year Senna qualified at 1min15ish........However Superkarts could certainly out brake an F1 at the end of Brabham Straight! Still hard on the gas passing the 100m board!!
Superkarts ran there for many years & were a crowd favourite, although other classes such as Group A, FF & early V8SCs hated us as we were the quickest support category.
Lap times slowed a little when the fuel rules changed in '92 & could no longer run the ELF GP bike fuel (worth about 5bhp!)


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Old 23 Jan 2012, 09:35 (Ref:3015624)   #21
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Hhhhmmm... I wouldn't be so sure about that. Adelaide has some long straights, one in particular, and the turbo F1s back then would have been monumentally quick down it. A Superkart wouldn't have been able to make up the difference around the twiddly bits.

Still it's a good reason to watch one of the greatest kart racers of all time shove a mega lap in that year in the Lotus.

Qualifying at Adelaide in 1985.
If we're going to start suggesting YT videos, here's my contribution...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDfmfA9Qyes

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One of those 'court a fish this big' stories I think! The Formula E (or 250 International) lap record at the Adelaide GP circuit stands at 1min39.5, set in 1989 (cannot recall driver's name....Dutch guy I think) Same year Senna qualified at 1min15ish........However Superkarts could certainly out brake an F1 at the end of Brabham Straight! Still hard on the gas passing the 100m board!!
Superkarts ran there for many years & were a crowd favourite, although other classes such as Group A, FF & early V8SCs hated us as we were the quickest support category.
Lap times slowed a little when the fuel rules changed in '92 & could no longer run the ELF GP bike fuel (worth about 5bhp!)


.
The conversation was a few years ago, was the only time I've ever come across the guy, never thought about the conversation til reading this thread, in one ear, out the other, didn't bother to check it. However, I distinctly remember him saying "faster than the GP cars", but, a low 1:40 would've been quicker than an early model Group A car there so, unless the Formula Pacific/F2 cars were also there (I don't know) he probably meant of classes on the support bill.
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Old 23 Jan 2012, 11:50 (Ref:3015670)   #22
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Still it's a good reason to watch one of the greatest kart racers of all time shove a mega lap in that year in the Lotus.

Qualifying at Adelaide in 1985.
Great link davyboy. Good to see they used some of that clip in the film Senna.

Oh how I wish they had onboard cameras on some of the cars during qualifying in '85 and '86... The first official race TV onboard of Francois Hesnault lasting a few laps of the '85 German GP on race boost doesn't really show what animals the turbo cars were during 'unlimited boost' qualifying.

The onboards floating around Youtube of Satoru Nakajima during qualifying at the Osterreichring (sp?) in '87 probably give the best impression of wrestling a turbo GP car (along with Johnny Dumfries onboard at Adelaide '86), but by '87 the boost was restricted and with no disrespect, if Fuji had put the camera on Senna's 99T all year instead of Nakajima-san's, the footage might have been even better. Aaarggh, i'm going off topic again...
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Old 23 Jan 2012, 13:47 (Ref:3015702)   #23
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Originally Posted by formerf1champ View Post
If we're going to start suggesting YT videos, here's my contribution...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDfmfA9Qyes
Absolutely fantastic stuff. Great vid.
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Old 23 Jan 2012, 20:30 (Ref:3015894)   #24
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Race 2 at the 1994 AGP was interesting as it rained like stink. This gave us the perfect opportunity to see (or rather not see!) what open wheelers experience.
Lap 1 down Brabham Straight was terrifying, just a wall of spray & hope for the best! However a few bad accidents due to the conditions meant it turned out to be our last run at the GP..........

For Dollars/Pounds per second per lap, you cannot beat Superkarting.....it's one hell of a ride!


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Old 24 Jan 2012, 10:07 (Ref:3016112)   #25
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Race 2 at the 1994 AGP was interesting as it rained like stink. This gave us the perfect opportunity to see (or rather not see!) what open wheelers experience.
Lap 1 down Brabham Straight was terrifying, just a wall of spray & hope for the best! However a few bad accidents due to the conditions meant it turned out to be our last run at the GP..........

For Dollars/Pounds per second per lap, you cannot beat Superkarting.....it's one hell of a ride!


.
I have a sketchy memory of that race, Gerry Siebert won it, I think. I'm confident there was Superkarts racing in '95, I forgot one of the winners (on a Andersen-Yamaha, I think), the other was John Barabasz.
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Old 24 Jan 2012, 21:44 (Ref:3016501)   #26
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Yes Gerry won in the big wet & Ralf Rupprecht was victorious in Race 1 of '94 on the Friday.
No Superkarts at the '95 AGP, otherwise I would've been on the grid instead of the grandstand.
John Barabasz finished 2nd to Les May in the Winfield Triple Challenge at Eastern Creek in early '94, this was televised by Channel 9 with Wayne Gardner in commentary with Big Daz!

Have dug through my archives:

1994 AGP Race 1
1st: Ralf Rupprecht - Anderson Rotax
2nd: Peter Woodgate - Zip Eagle Rotax
3rd: Jason Maros - Zip Eagle Rotax

Race 2
1st: Gerard Siebert - Zip Eagle Rotax
2nd: Brian Stockman - Stockman MR2 Honda
3rd: Peter Woodgate

Also a correction on the lap record:
Darren Edwards (1993) - 1min38.95


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Old 25 Jan 2012, 08:22 (Ref:3016651)   #27
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I even have a sketchy memory of watching the Triple Challenge! Yep, I've muddled it all up, a slighty harder to pronounce name, an Anderson something, John won an Australian title. I didn't think one day I'd have to recall all of it!
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Old 28 Jan 2012, 12:11 (Ref:3018143)   #28
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This isn't strictly accurate, but it gives a bit more of an idea of relative performance of 1967 GP cars and modern superkarts.

The sim GPL isn't perfectly accurate with the '67 cars, but it's pretty close. At the modern version of Laguna Seca, really good sim drivers can do 1m26 - 1m29 laps. The superkart lap record around Laguna is 1m23.676, set by Sam Zavaglia in 2008 (was held by Eddie Lawson of MotoGP fame before that at 1m23.875).

I can't find a real '67 GP car lap time at Laguna - some have raced at the Monterey historics, I recall seeing pictures of a Ferrari 312/67 there. There was a '66-'83 F1 race at last years event, but I can't find any details of the fastest laps set during the race. With the small inaccuracies of GPL in the car physics, and the fact that the best sim drivers use the brake and throttle to settle the car in the corners, I would reckon that a real '67 GP car driven hard could do a 1m29 - 1m30 at Laguna, 5-6 seconds slower than a superkart. Either vehicle would be awesome to watch there! Sam Zavaglia's fastest lap onboard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2o--m0wsu0

Also for a closer comparison to '67 GP cars, Bobby Rahal set a 1m25 lap in qualifying for the 2008 Historic Can-Am race at Laguna Seca, in a 1972 Lola T310 - 8.4 litres, 900hp (!). To show how fast the car is and how quick Rahal still is, at the 2010 Monterey historics the fastest lap in the IMSA GT/GTX race was a 1.33.02 by Rob Walton in a 1978 Porsche 935, and fastest lap of the weekend was a 1.24.79 by Stefan Johannson in a 1986 Porsche 962.
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Old 20 Feb 2012, 11:29 (Ref:3028348)   #29
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Thanks for the replies - v. interesting. As I noted earlier the fastest superkart at the Sep 2011 meeting lapped within 8 seconds/lap of the fastest F1 lap at the 1967 Gold Cup - but they had no chicanes then. I wondered if the chicanes were worth 8 secs/lap?
Well, I've recently been running "Netkar Pro" a racing car simulator and it has Oulton Park in a number of configurations. A FF2000 car is 11 secs/lap quicker without the chicanes than with them - so it reasonable to assume that the 1967 F1 cars would lose at least 8 secs - so it looks like a superkart could be quicker around Oulton Park than a 1967 F1 car!

As an aside, it looks like iRacing will also get Oulton Park soon - one of my favourite tracks!
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Old 21 Feb 2012, 13:25 (Ref:3028920)   #30
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Thanks for the replies - v. interesting. As I noted earlier the fastest superkart at the Sep 2011 meeting lapped within 8 seconds/lap of the fastest F1 lap at the 1967 Gold Cup - but they had no chicanes then. I wondered if the chicanes were worth 8 secs/lap?
Well, I've recently been running "Netkar Pro" a racing car simulator and it has Oulton Park in a number of configurations. A FF2000 car is 11 secs/lap quicker without the chicanes than with them - so it reasonable to assume that the 1967 F1 cars would lose at least 8 secs - so it looks like a superkart could be quicker around Oulton Park than a 1967 F1 car!

As an aside, it looks like iRacing will also get Oulton Park soon - one of my favourite tracks!
There's no question that the Superkart would be much quicker through the chicanes than the 1967 F1 car. The FF2000 would also be faster through the chicanes when compared with the older F1 car too.
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