Indycar News & Rumors.

[bjohnsonsmith]

If Dallara's past performance on car development is anything to go by, I don't see the jury returning a favourable verdict.

[Down F0rce]

Let's have some positive rumours for a change, shall we? "Positivity" and "message forums" don't really go well together these days, but I digress...

Alex Zanardi fancies a shot at the Indy 500 - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102023

Would be a sight to see. Good luck with the Paralympics Alex!

[Yannick]

Bruno Junqueira will replace the injured Josef Newgarden in the #67 SFHR car at Baltimore. That's quite an interesting driver choice, I'd say. Here's hoping he can acquaint himself with the new car quickly.
http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...-at-baltimore/

[mountainstar]

Sounds like Kirby is channeling mountainstar:

At the heart of this latest disagreement between the team owners and sanctioning body is the sad state of IndyCar's overall media exposure and sponsorship income which has driven the series down the spec car route resulting in the current truly Soviet era centrally-planned, cost-controlled car entirely removed from the free market.

Wonder where he got that idea from?

http://gordonkirby.com/categories/co..._is_no350.html

Funny how history repeats itself.

[JohnSSC]

Quote from me: "Is the purpose of IndyCar to provide cheap, profitable racing opportunities for poor, downtrodden owners like Andretti, Ganassi, Penske et al or is it to sanction a series where owners and drivers want to contest a championship that fans want to see?"

I'd love for someone at IndyCar to answer this question. I'd love for anyone to answer this question, actually. Why does IndyCar exist? Typically, a series exists/continues to exist because there is a sufficient fanbase to support it. The TV is definitely not there and the gate seems to be "iffy' at best.

Aside from IndyCar management, who/what drives the justification to continue the series?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Quote from me: "Is the purpose of IndyCar to provide cheap, profitable racing opportunities for poor, downtrodden owners like Andretti, Ganassi, Penske et al or is it to sanction a series where owners and drivers want to contest a championship that fans want to see?"

I'd love for someone at IndyCar to answer this question. I'd love for anyone to answer this question, actually. Why does IndyCar exist? Typically, a series exists/continues to exist because there is a sufficient fanbase to support it. The TV is definitely not there and the gate seems to be "iffy' at best.

Aside from IndyCar management, who/what drives the justification to continue the series?

A very interesting post. Some might say the series is a mere afterthought with pride of place and focus being the Indy 500; a top open wheel series it's not.

As for your initial question, "Is the purpose of IndyCar to provide cheap, profitable racing opportunities for poor, downtrodden owners like Andretti, Ganassi, Penske et al or is it to sanction a series where owners and drivers want to contest a championship that fans want to see?", why not e-mail Ropin' Randy and see what he has to say?

[JohnSSC]

Not a bad idea, bjohnson....

[wnut]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Quote from me: "Is the purpose of IndyCar to provide cheap, profitable racing opportunities for poor, downtrodden owners like Andretti, Ganassi, Penske et al or is it to sanction a series where owners and drivers want to contest a championship that fans want to see?"

I'd love for someone at IndyCar to answer this question. I'd love for anyone to answer this question, actually. Why does IndyCar exist? Typically, a series exists/continues to exist because there is a sufficient fanbase to support it. The TV is definitely not there and the gate seems to be "iffy' at best.

Aside from IndyCar management, who/what drives the justification to continue the series?

I think there are a number of series that should answer this great question.
Truthfully the answer is in the owners corner.

Spec one make club formulae marketed as national and international competitions!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by wnut

I think there are a number of series that should answer this great question.
Truthfully the answer is in the owners corner.

Is that the team owners or the IMS owners?

[D.R.T.]

Great to see Junky back

[Mystery]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Is that the team owners or the IMS owners?

Usually both. There's got to be something in it for both sides or one walks away. Hence the problems now - the promise that had been offered wasn't delivered so the team owners aren't happy.

Unfortunately, the owners had their shot at running the show and made a hash of that as well.

Lots of one-make series work this way with dwindling interest and dwindling grids and Indycar needs to do something different (e.g. the aero packages) to make it look worthwhile.

[Paradise City]

The IMS owners have the power. It's the only open-wheel venue that promises a pay-day if not that then a nation-wide marketing windfall. Without the Speedway and with NASCAR's fat behind sitting on the Indycars asthmatic chest, Indycar turns into a clubbie series.

[bjohnsonsmith]

I overlooked mountainstar's post but Kirby has it right. Interesting he doesn't offer a 'solution', then why should he.

http://gordonkirby.com/categories/co..._is_no350.html

[DS"]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I overlooked mountainstar's post but Kirby has it right. Interesting he doesn't offer a 'solution', then why should he.

http://gordonkirby.com/categories/co..._is_no350.html

As always with people who complain about "teh evul commienazisocalist gummint!!!!!1eleven"

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by DS"

As always with people who complain about "teh evul commienazisocalist gummint!!!!!1eleven"

If you haven't, you should read Kirby's article.

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

If you haven't, you should read Kirby's article.

Indeed.

... And in the various articles Kirby has published he provides a number of different opinions from prominent people in American motor sport. It is our job to take all of the facts and opinions presented and form our own opinions based on our own tastes and beliefs.

Chris

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

Indeed.

... And in the various articles Kirby has published he provides a number of different opinions from prominent people in American motor sport. It is our job to take all of the facts and opinions presented and form our own opinions based on our own tastes and beliefs.

Chris

That's the mark of a good journalist.

[DS"]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

If you haven't, you should read Kirby's article.

It says "404". So I guess you should insert a proper link.

Thus, I wasn't referring to Kirby's article, but rather to "Interesting he doesn't offer a 'solution', then why should he." Because that seems to be a rather "American" (I know I'm gonna get bashed for this, so I won't even bother to apologize!) disease. Complaining about some higher-up, in this case probably the IMS and in some other cases the "gummint", but not offering proper and reasonable solutions on their own. Lowering taxes/raising "revenue" probably isn't a reasonable solution, because there is next to no money to do anything with it anyway.

But politics should stay the f' out here anyway. This is an auto racing forum after all.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by DS"

It says "404". So I guess you should insert a proper link.

I got the link from mountainstar's post and it worked fine but here it is again, http://gordonkirby.com/categories/co..._is_no350.html, enjoy.

Originally Posted by DS"

Thus, I wasn't referring to Kirby's article, but rather to "Interesting he doesn't offer a 'solution', then why should he." Because that seems to be a rather "American" (I know I'm gonna get bashed for this, so I won't even bother to apologize!) disease. Complaining about some higher-up, in this case probably the IMS and in some other cases the "gummint", but not offering proper and reasonable solutions on their own. Lowering taxes/raising "revenue" probably isn't a reasonable solution, because there is next to no money to do anything with it anyway.

But politics should stay the f' out here anyway. This is an auto racing forum after all.

Why should he offer a solution to the problems the IRL is facing, they aren't of his making? Gordon Kirby is a journalist and in this article many of the problems faced and created by AOWR from USAC to CART to the IRL, are discussed in the interview with Dan Gurney.

I don't see what the "gummint" got to do with it?

[DS"]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I got the link from mountainstar's post and it worked fine but here it is again, http://gordonkirby.com/categories/co..._is_no350.html, enjoy.

Thank you. But in the meantime, I just went to Mr.Kirby's site on my own.

Why should he offer a solution to the problems the IRL is facing, they aren't of his making? Gordon Kirby is a journalist and in this article many of the problems faced and created by AOWR from USAC to CART to the IRL, are discussed in the interview with Dan Gurney.

I know the stories about the splits. But we shouldn't look back to the past. We should look to what we have right now, and how we should try to improve things for the future. Maybe that's what some journalists should do, although I concede that they should put hard facts first.

I don't see what the "gummint" got to do with it?

You got a mail!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by DS"

Thank you. But in the meantime, I just went to Mr.Kirby's site on my own.

I know the stories about the splits. But we shouldn't look back to the past. We should look to what we have right now, and how we should try to improve things for the future. Maybe that's what some journalists should do, although I concede that they should put hard facts first.

You need to put the history of AOWR it in it's context, doing and by doing so Dan Gurney was showing that there was a pattern that's existed throughout the history of AOWR that still continues.

Originally Posted by DS"

You got a mail!

What's that got to with anything?

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by DS"

It says "404". So I guess you should insert a proper link.

Thus, I wasn't referring to Kirby's article, but rather to "Interesting he doesn't offer a 'solution', then why should he." Because that seems to be a rather "American" (I know I'm gonna get bashed for this, so I won't even bother to apologize!) disease. Complaining about some higher-up, in this case probably the IMS and in some other cases the "gummint", but not offering proper and reasonable solutions on their own. Lowering taxes/raising "revenue" probably isn't a reasonable solution, because there is next to no money to do anything with it anyway.

But politics should stay the f' out here anyway. This is an auto racing forum after all.

You are ranting on and have no idea what you are talking about, neither the original conversation we had on here nor Kirby's article.

Read the article first for one thing.

What I referred to in my post was a conversation we had on here about the structure of the irl and how it is run and it's similarities with various government systems. It was a good conversation and one that I wouldn't be surprised if Kirby drew inspiration from.

Also it's not gummint, it's guvment if you are from Alabama and gubermint if you are from Texas.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Why should he offer a solution to the problems the IRL is facing, they aren't of his making? Gordon Kirby is a journalist and in this article many of the problems faced and created by AOWR from USAC to CART to the IRL, are discussed in the interview with Dan Gurney.

I don't see what the "gummint" got to do with it?

To offer a "solution", is to write a book and I'm sure in the past Kirby has offered solutions, I have offered solutions, other posters have offered solutions and probably a thousand other people have offered solutions.

However with the current regime, they are running the rut they always have and they hear no voices outside of the 465 freeway.

I'm of the opinion that as long as the speedway holds ownership of the series it goes nowhere. In fact that is probably the point of the article as well, laying out the similarities between now and the late 1970's when there was Indy and then there was some other indycar races that were reluctantly run and poorly supported. There was no viable, commercially successful series and it was impossible for team owners to even break even, much less make a profit. A lot of speedway types have called this the original split, but there wasn't anything to really split from as the schedule was almost non existent.

The V8 Supercar model has been very successful and it is a mix of team owners and their franchises as well as a block of independent ownership. I think what you need is for a successful business person to come in, own 40% of the business and with the other 60% owned by teams.

When the day comes that the speedway sells out and as long as it doesn't go to another pack of idiots, there will not be any future for American open wheel racing. It peaked at the end of the 20th century and nothing the like of it will likely be seen again.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

You need to put the history of AOWR it in it's context, doing and by doing so Dan Gurney was showing that there was a pattern that's existed throughout the history of AOWR that still continues.

Back then there were people like Dan Gurney. Where are similar people now? I don't see them right now.

Probably the big issue with team owners in open wheel racing is that in almost all cases, it's not their core business. That was the big issue with Champcar, it was run as a hobby business and never had any professional business structure put in place. Andrew Craig was probably the closest the sport came to having a decent manager, many did not like him, but he was very successful during his tenure.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I have offered solutions

Hahaha