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Old 26 Oct 2007, 10:02 (Ref:2051840)   #26
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Lack of fear is not always a good thing, especially at this level.
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Old 26 Oct 2007, 12:40 (Ref:2051965)   #27
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D.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridD.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Owner
Matsurras' results are not enough for his sponsorship to continue.
Where does that leave a 2nd panther car ?
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Old 26 Oct 2007, 16:09 (Ref:2052120)   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D.R.T.
Where does that leave a 2nd panther car ?
Meira will be in the first one and I put my money on Mutoh for the second one...
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Old 27 Oct 2007, 21:02 (Ref:2052873)   #29
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stradlin21 has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
there's a decent chance Matsuura will stay in the IRL i reckon

he'll be after more Japanese backing
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Old 27 Oct 2007, 21:02 (Ref:2052875)   #30
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Quote:
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Where does that leave a 2nd panther car ?
still with Matsuura in it or someone else
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Old 29 Oct 2007, 07:43 (Ref:2053817)   #31
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D.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridD.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
But if Matsuura doesnt have the sponsorship, is there another driver with a budget that can take over that car.

Or the other option I guess would be a 1 car operation
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Old 31 Oct 2007, 18:16 (Ref:2056109)   #32
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get that from inside track?
I don't know what inside track is Luke. I don't consider your post an attack.
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Old 2 Nov 2007, 21:25 (Ref:2058194)   #33
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Originally Posted by D.R.T.
But if Matsuura doesnt have the sponsorship, is there another driver with a budget that can take over that car.

Or the other option I guess would be a 1 car operation
Panther is currently working their rolodex really hard to find funding for the second car. It's a similar situation to where they were in 2006 to find funding for their first car and they got it done.

There are also a few drivers out there who reportedly have some sort of budget set up for themselves so you might see some combination of driver and team funding to get that car on track. From a driver standpoint, it has to be one of the better available seats in the league at this point, especially for an inexperienced driver to have such a great teammate in vitor.
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Old 4 Nov 2007, 01:21 (Ref:2058994)   #34
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D.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridD.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by drdisque
Panther is currently working their rolodex really hard to find funding for the second car. It's a similar situation to where they were in 2006 to find funding for their first car and they got it done.
How much more stuff do they have to sell ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by drdisque
There are also a few drivers out there who reportedly have some sort of budget set up for themselves so you might see some combination of driver and team funding to get that car on track.
Hmmm yeah but when a series is relying of pay drivers its not really a sign of a positive future or so I have been told.
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Old 4 Nov 2007, 14:00 (Ref:2059296)   #35
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Oh dear

Looks like DRT is going on the attack after being reminded of the problems in Kevin Kalkhoven Car, sorry, I mean Champ Car!

Champ car yes, it's an easy mistake to make you know!
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Old 4 Nov 2007, 14:19 (Ref:2059306)   #36
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D.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridD.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Not going on the attack at all. But if one is critisized for seeking pay drivers, should the same argument not be applied to another
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Old 4 Nov 2007, 14:57 (Ref:2059322)   #37
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I think it has been shown that one series is much more dependent on pay drivers than the other. When the "business model" is constructed around having a pay driver and there exists a revolving door to make early, mid and late season exits form the teams more expedient, then there is an extreme that has been reached. Calling oneself a premier series when the first and foremost question is how much budget a driver is bringing beggars belief.

Certainly, drivers bringing a budget to a team is not limited to any series, up to and including F1. However, I think it has been shown in the past here that the IRL is not free of this, nor do they have an inordinate number of pay drivers on the grid. I do nto think the IRL is as bad in this regard as other open wheel and sports car categories.
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Old 4 Nov 2007, 15:03 (Ref:2059329)   #38
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D.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridD.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Point being it is still an issue, one that can fluctuate from season to season. A big example of this in the IRL and its changes in fortune since its inception.

Its good to see that we can agree that pay drivers in any series is not a sign of strength, being equally pessimistic of course.
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Old 4 Nov 2007, 15:06 (Ref:2059330)   #39
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You seem to like walking the line between being merely sarcastic and attacking the poster...
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Old 4 Nov 2007, 23:21 (Ref:2059679)   #40
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luke should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridluke should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
What does this have to do with this topic? This sure is the AOWR war here.
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Old 5 Nov 2007, 12:46 (Ref:2060099)   #41
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climb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridclimb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.R.T.
...

Its good to see that we can agree that pay drivers in any series is not a sign of strength, being equally pessimistic of course.
Yes, but one thing is a team relying on pay drivers, another one is a series relying on them....
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Old 6 Nov 2007, 01:42 (Ref:2060774)   #42
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D.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridD.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Someone has to get the ball rolling climb. Mutoh is another interesting discussion point.

Point being is do what you have to in order to survive.
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Old 6 Nov 2007, 11:01 (Ref:2061025)   #43
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So is that what the "point" is? To survive? Not thrive?

The fact that CC relies on pay drivers to the extent that you have driver changes not only between seasons, but between races tells me that the only people really interested in the series are drivers who want to fatten a CV.

The sponsors sure as heck could care less.
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Old 6 Nov 2007, 11:55 (Ref:2061075)   #44
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D.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridD.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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So is that what the "point" is? To survive? Not thrive?
Survive before you thrive john. I think the IRL was a good example of that from the early 90's to 03 - 05 period before losing Toyota and Chevy.

Cycles my friend cycles, you do what you can.
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Old 6 Nov 2007, 12:10 (Ref:2061091)   #45
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the seat changing in champ car has been a joke this season

and certain people's views on the IRL in here are laughable and it's because they are worrying about their own series so are attacking this one, it's very very sad but it doesn't surprise me

a shame
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Old 6 Nov 2007, 12:38 (Ref:2061125)   #46
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climb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridclimb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.R.T.
... Mutoh is another interesting discussion point.

Point being is do what you have to in order to survive.
I cannot catch your drift, DRT; Mutoh got a drive in one of the best funded OWR teams, if not the best, therefore nobody can say he's doing it "to survive"; nor can we say AGR have recruited him because they need his money.
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Old 7 Nov 2007, 00:06 (Ref:2061685)   #47
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D.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridD.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Is the fourth car not going to be funded by Honda ?

While Mutoh has shown potential during his debut season in IPS, by no means did his talent alone get him the AGR ride. If it came soley down to the best candidate he would not be driving the #27 car.

To survive a manufacturer helps, if that manufactuer tells you who to put in the car, you do it, smile and shake hands and hope one day it improves.

Much in the same way Marco Andretti wasnt the best candidate to replace Wheldon.
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Old 7 Nov 2007, 09:45 (Ref:2061911)   #48
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climb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridclimb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.R.T.
Is the fourth car not going to be funded by Honda ?

While Mutoh has shown potential during his debut season in IPS, by no means did his talent alone get him the AGR ride. If it came soley down to the best candidate he would not be driving the #27 car.

To survive a manufacturer helps, if that manufactuer tells you who to put in the car, you do it, smile and shake hands and hope one day it improves.

Much in the same way Marco Andretti wasnt the best candidate to replace Wheldon.
Tell me the name of a team boss who refused money from outside

The problem is, AGR are not that kinda team who need to hire a pay driver in order to survive; they just do it because there is an economic interest, some more money probably coming from Honda, but that's a completely different situation from the ones we recently saw in CC
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Old 10 Nov 2007, 01:40 (Ref:2064106)   #49
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D.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridD.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Would the 4th car be there without this money from Honda? So a pay driver could be helping the 4th car to survive.
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Old 10 Nov 2007, 14:19 (Ref:2064350)   #50
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I think there is a huge difference here in saying "Pay Driver" as in Geoff Boss and implying that Mutoh is of the same ilk.

Is Mutoh one of "Honda's" drivers? Sure. He has had his career shepherded by them. The quid pro quo is that he actually has to produce results in order to continue with their support.

Honda is trying to place their guy with a team where their guy will get the best results. Period. AGR has the resources to do that. AGR will continue to exist with or without Mutoh. Whether that is as a 3-car or a 4-car team is their decision. Certainly Franchitti was not a "pay driver" although he did apparently have sponsorship associated with him.

This is not the same situation where, say, Revolving Door Racing has seats available but only functions if the drivers in them bring a Cashier's Check.
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