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Old 17 Jan 2020, 08:53 (Ref:3952056)   #1
andrewc
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andrewc should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
F3 Cup 2020 dates

4/5 April Donington Park National
30/31 May Brands Hatch GP
20/21 June Silverstone National
27 June Oulton Park
11/12 July Snetterton 300
12/13 September Donington Park GP
3/4 October Snetterton 300

Not as good a calendar as previous years unless you like Donington and Snetterton, and one week gap between Silverstone and Oulton Park isn't a terribly sensible idea - unload truck on Monday, pack truck on Thursday.
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Old 19 Jan 2020, 12:49 (Ref:3952289)   #2
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it's a shame they can't take it to anglesey or pembrey instead of running so many rounds at their own circuits. gt cup had the same thing last year - out of 7 events, 3 were at snetterton. can't be very inspiring for competitors.
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Old 19 Jan 2020, 17:41 (Ref:3952318)   #3
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They took F3 Cup to Anglesey twice in the past and got grids half their usual size, so they decided not to go back. I don't think Pembrey is perceived as being up-market enough.
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Old 22 Jan 2020, 12:21 (Ref:3952735)   #4
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it's a shame they can't take it to anglesey or pembrey instead of running so many rounds at their own circuits. gt cup had the same thing last year - out of 7 events, 3 were at snetterton. can't be very inspiring for competitors.
Yes but where else are the meant to go. Same with British GT going to Donington twice. The UK doesn't have enough tracks that are big enough or wide enough to host GT3 or F3 cars.
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Old 22 Jan 2020, 12:57 (Ref:3952743)   #5
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F3's would be fine at Thruxton, Castle Combe, Mallory, Anglesey and Pembrey if variety was desired.

- Thruxton has limited dates,
- Combe is snitty about noise, but all cars are within 108db static
- They would get dizzy at Mallory doing 40s laps.
- distance puts people off Anglesey and Pembrey, especially for a one-dayer

Cadwell paddock and mountain may cause problems with low ride height cars.

They are not adverse to an overseas round, could link up with the Leinster Trophy at Mondello, or return to Zolder / Spa or go to Zandvoort.

Last edited by andrewc; 22 Jan 2020 at 13:22.
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Old 22 Jan 2020, 13:26 (Ref:3952745)   #6
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One circuit which always seems to be bypassed these days is Thruxton . Living in the southwest it's very frustrating to see championship after championship producing a calendar based largely in the Midlands apart from a visit to Brands .

I've seen some wonderful single seater racing over the years at Thruxton , not just Formula Three but Formulas 1 , 2 , 3000 , 5000 etc . I was hoping the BRSCC meeting might see the National Formula Ford championship pay a visit but no , its Caterhams , BMWs and TCRs only .

Okay so the last visit of the GTs was chaotic due the narrow pit lane ( it certainly mixed the order up ! ) so have separate races for Pros and Ams without pit stops . Thruxton is a great circuit which would allow the GTs to be used to their full potential .

Is the problem that Thruxton is too far off the beaten track ? Surely not as it's not far from either the M3 or M4 with the A303 running straight past the circuit . Sadly the only single seater races I can see being held this year at Thruxton are the Formula 4 races at the BTCC meeting .

With the Classic Formula Fords and Clubmans both going from the BARC to MSVR ( and Sports 2000 although that wasn't a BARC championship ) it seems the chance of seeing Single Seater , Sports Racing and GT cars at Thruxton ( apart from those on the BTCC schedule ) is unlikely in the near future . Never mind at least the Monopostos are visiting Castle Combe in July .
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Old 22 Jan 2020, 15:37 (Ref:3952763)   #7
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The problem with Thruxton is that is is only allowed to host a small number of events per year (12 days worth) of which BTCC, BSB and Trucks are 'biggies' and take half the allocation. The other three weekends are club events - this year being split between BRSCC, CSCC and a new Historic weekend.

There are aren't many trackdays at Thruxton, and the ones there are have to be for fully silenced cars - 90db static.

The pit garages are laughably small and it doesn't suit racing with pitstops, but its certainly not off the beaten track, no more so than Oulton Park is for half the country, or Cadwell/Snetterton.
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Old 22 Jan 2020, 22:19 (Ref:3952839)   #8
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the other problem with thruxton specifically for f3 cup and gt cup is that pirelli wouldn't have it. the increase in tyre costs if they upped the allocation to cover the extra wear isn't to be sniffed at either.
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They took F3 Cup to Anglesey twice in the past and got grids half their usual size, so they decided not to go back. I don't think Pembrey is perceived as being up-market enough.
considering half the grid is run by the welsh i'm surprised they haven't campaigned to go back

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Yes but where else are the meant to go. Same with British GT going to Donington twice. The UK doesn't have enough tracks that are big enough or wide enough to host GT3 or F3 cars.
i mean, msv run f3 (cup and brdc) so it's not hard work to figure out the benefits to them to run their own series at their own circuits on their own events. cutting out the middleman and all that. f3 cars run in monoposto series amongst others as well, so there's no reason they couldn't go for a bit of variety if they really wanted to.
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Old 23 Jan 2020, 22:50 (Ref:3953028)   #9
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The current F3 Cup cars are at least one generation too new to run in Monoposto - the newest chassis in the latter is the F307.

When F3 Cup went to Spa, there was dispensation to use two sets of nominated tyres, so if there were concerns about tyres, then same dispensation could be given.

edit to previous message, no reason Croft couldn't be re-visited.
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Old 24 Jan 2020, 09:24 (Ref:3953091)   #10
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Additionally Monoposto cars run at 40mm ride height whereas F3 Cup needs to run at 20mm or so. Not much but you need to swap parts over to jack the cars up to that level, and that also has consequences with other regulations dictated by the MSA - rear wing height, so that has to be lowered, and you have to fit a smaller restrictor.
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Old 24 Jan 2020, 20:41 (Ref:3953207)   #11
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fair enough. but the grid size suggests that something needs to be done to improve the series.

i noticed that they've organised a clashing round with brdc f3. that's going to be a pain in the backside for CDR.
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Old 25 Jan 2020, 08:25 (Ref:3953264)   #12
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CDR have coped with clashing rounds before, thats part and parcel of running a team contesting different championships.

Cost of competing has risen sharply in the past few years, its put a lot of people off, including us. I think they have to either do something different to widen its appeal, or be content that there is a small number of drivers wanting to drive a modern thoroughbred single seater in its original, unadulterated form.

Meanwhile GT racing is thriving, and drivers are paying the same or more to drive bigger, heavier, more unsuitable racing cars around a circuit less quickly.
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Old 25 Jan 2020, 10:18 (Ref:3953281)   #13
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still think it's a bit clumsy, but yeah, point taken. just another increase in cost. same goes for scheduling british f3/gt and btcc clashes - the folk who freelance in both have to make a decision.

essentially it's the same problem organisers faced in the old fiaf3/euro f3/proper british f3, isn't it? tiny grids aren't a great selling point, but the car is. are there equivalent series in europe?
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Old 25 Jan 2020, 16:07 (Ref:3953310)   #14
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The Drexler-Automotive F3 Cup ( formerly the Austrian F3 Cup ? ) also caters for Formula Three cars not complying with the current set of regulations . Races were held in Italy , Austria , Czech Republic and Hungary so these days it appears to be more of a Central European series and grid sizes appear to be larger than the British F3 Cup series . Whereas the British Series only sees Dallaras from the last two models ( F308 and F312 ) the Drexler series sees cars dating back to 2004 .

The biggest problem for any single seater series these days has to be the lack of availability of suitable machinery . Going back to the nineties ( God is it really thirty years ago ) F3 teams bought new cars every season and sold them at the end of the season to competitors in Class B and they in turn sold them on to club racers to compete in the nineties equivalent of the F3 Cup . This of course applied to other Formulae as well .

Until a decade or so ago things carried on in much the same way when gradually national Formula Three series died out to be replaced by the current one make so called Formula Three . The problem with one make series is that the cars are used for several seasons and thus don't enter the club racing single seater food chain with the result that club single seater racing is in danger of dying out . The whole single seater class structure needs restructuring or single seater racing at a national level will die out in the next decade or so .

Regarding Formula Three and GT cars not racing at Thruxton because of potential tyre problems , I'm slightly bemused that Pirelli wouldn't be able to cope with the circuits admittedly high demands . Much quicker cars have competed for many years and isn't a large part of motor racing the ability to look after your equipment ? More likely is the fact that MSVR run both series and seem reluctant to run races at other clubs circuits other than Silverstone .
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Old 25 Jan 2020, 16:08 (Ref:3953311)   #15
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i mean, msv run f3 (cup and brdc) so it's not hard work to figure out the benefits to them to run their own series at their own circuits on their own events. cutting out the middleman and all that. f3 cars run in monoposto series amongst others as well, so there's no reason they couldn't go for a bit of variety if they really wanted to.[/QUOTE]


7 rounds, 6 @ Palmer circuits!
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