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Old 30 Nov 2002, 05:11 (Ref:439885)   #1
El_Gibleto
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El_Gibleto should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Worst BTCC Driver since 2001?

The Autosport season review of the btcc stated that a number of drivers were "totally out of their depth" in the btcc, namely John Batchelor and Anne Templeton.

Was Autosport right in it's assesment of those drivers or were they as untalented as they appeared to be?

Are the two suggested by Autosport the worst btcc drivers? Or can anyone suggest any less talented drives to have raced in the btcc in the last 2 seaasons?

Last edited by El_Gibleto; 30 Nov 2002 at 05:15.
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Old 30 Nov 2002, 05:21 (Ref:439886)   #2
Russfeld
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Russfeld should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Well I dont know if this counts as low talent, but I was interested to hear watching the coverage in the US, that Paul Oneil(?), had never ever won a race before his victory at Oulton. That doesnt seem like front line BTCC material to me.
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Old 30 Nov 2002, 05:23 (Ref:439887)   #3
El_Gibleto
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El_Gibleto should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
At least Paul is capable of posting competitive lap times and has shown consistant improvement all year.
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Old 30 Nov 2002, 13:48 (Ref:440081)   #4
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BootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I think yea, B&Q and Templeton are really not topline racers, they are merely hobbyists having fun in terms of actually racing, although John has done well as a team owner and is a very popular member of the paddock.

In terms of the Touring Class I don't rate O'Neill especially highly, but I've always hated the Spice Girls so maybe I'm biased. Dave Pinkney comes to mind as another contender.
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Old 30 Nov 2002, 16:30 (Ref:440142)   #5
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Tim Harvey Fan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
But Russfeld, you have to remember that Paul O'Neill has not been racing very long at all compared with the guys he is up against. I think he has done an exceptional job in the short few years since he has been racing. I think he has a very bright future in the BTCC
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Old 30 Nov 2002, 16:58 (Ref:440147)   #6
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Russfeld should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
True, in which case maybe he should be developing in the junior ranks?

Its just that seeing a driver who had never won in any class, driving a semi-works touring car, with a famous sibling. Its just a little much...
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Old 30 Nov 2002, 17:24 (Ref:440158)   #7
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Why should he be stuck in the 'junior' ranks ? He's done a season in the MGF Cup, one in production touring cars and was then offered a ride at Triple Eight. Would you have declined that offer ?

In terms of outright race pace this year it comes down to a tie between John, Annie and Steve Wood. Steve had the excuse that he was driving a dog of a car. I'm sure John and Annie would be the first to admit that they are not the fastest out there but, again, if that opportunity presented itself, would you turn it down ?
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Old 30 Nov 2002, 17:28 (Ref:440159)   #8
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No I wouldnt have declined, but id have been very surprised to be offered one. Guys have to win races and championships at junior single seater levels before they become F1 drivers, why shouldnt touring car drivers have to do the same?

I just dont view the top category of any discipline as the series you learn in as you go along, thats what the junior system is setup for.
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Old 30 Nov 2002, 17:35 (Ref:440160)   #9
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Yeah but he had been through the junior system... in the same way as drivers such as Damon Hill had been through the junior system in single seaters without any outstanding success. He soon picked it up when he got to F1, didn't he!
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Old 30 Nov 2002, 17:50 (Ref:440168)   #10
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It'd be harder to pick a really bad driver in Touring. Production is like the junior formulae of single seater racing.
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Old 30 Nov 2002, 18:22 (Ref:440180)   #11
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Paul Oneil(?), had never ever won a race before his victory at Oulton. That doesnt seem like front line BTCC material to me
Russfeld, from your own words Paul did in fact win a race this year. A big achievement considering the depth of experience that he is up against.
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Old 30 Nov 2002, 23:49 (Ref:440294)   #12
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sceptic should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
...can I suggest Dave Allan?
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Old 1 Dec 2002, 14:44 (Ref:440533)   #13
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Boots refered to them as 'hobbyists', in GT circles they would be 'gentleman drivers'. That's actually one of the things I miss about the old National Saloons and was hoping we would get back if we had a seperate Production series next year - namely the depth of the entry. At the sharp end you had the likes of Roukonen, Harrison, Eaves and Moen fighting for the title. Further back you had Richard Meins, Rick Kraemer, Kermit, Paulo Ceci and the like. They were never going to be full time professional race drivers but then they never wanted to be.

The current BTC-P format has effectively prcied these guys out of the market, which I think is a shame.
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Old 1 Dec 2002, 16:56 (Ref:440629)   #14
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rick vaux should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
This depends on how you determine " worst " do you mean driven the most badly...? Because then you can`t include Anni Templeton in that list, she doesn`t drive badly.
From the witness-box i would say any of the leading Vauxhall drivers, plus a proton man too, and it`s not David Leslie.....
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Old 1 Dec 2002, 23:18 (Ref:440792)   #15
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JEMMO should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
How about Tom Chilton?
I cant remember many races this year where he didnt take someone out or crash by himself.
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Old 2 Dec 2002, 06:37 (Ref:440925)   #16
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Les should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I must admit I hate threads like this - I wouldn't mind if you were to talk with a bit of knowledge of the driver or car.

Steve - def. a 'dog of a car' - he gets straight into a VW Golf at Brands and wins the Endurance race and the VW Cup.

Annie very accomplished winner in her class of historics - to put it rudely she has more balls than a lot of blokes out there.

Dave P - I presume you are talking of his time in the Alfa as you seem to have forgotten he won the Vectra championship.

In a field of cars there is always someone at the back!
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Old 2 Dec 2002, 11:16 (Ref:441033)   #17
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Originally posted by Les
I must admit I hate threads like this - I wouldn't mind if you were to talk with a bit of knowledge of the driver or car.

In a field of cars there is always someone at the back!
That's always the difficulty of this kind of thread- who's worse- the guy who totally underachieves in a factory drive, or the guy at the back of the grid running an uncompetive car on a tiny budget?
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Old 2 Dec 2002, 12:29 (Ref:441083)   #18
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racing4real should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It has to be said that being an under-achiever in BTCC does not mean being a bad driver! The standard in BTCC is very high and I think we take it for granted. It's a massive achievement to get into BTCC and even higher to get on the podium.

This is obvious when you see how many BTCC racers excel when they race in other championships (as Steve Wood and Annie T did) and even the much-maligned John B&Q won a championship before moving into Fiestas.

Enough of the criticism - how about some applause for these guys?
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Old 2 Dec 2002, 19:23 (Ref:441317)   #19
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Enough of the criticism - how about some applause for these guys?
yeah - ruddy good idea!
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Old 2 Dec 2002, 22:21 (Ref:441417)   #20
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Guy Goddard2 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Mark Lemmon...sorry lemmer has to go down as a Lemmon with his driving in 98 , other candidates are Russell Spence who made a mess of the guard rail with his Laguna in 99 and Craig Baird who simply.....well did nothing.
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Old 2 Dec 2002, 22:48 (Ref:441431)   #21
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Carrie should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCarrie should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Actually, if you look at the title, it's a discussion about drivers under the new rules since 2001.
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Old 2 Dec 2002, 23:44 (Ref:441462)   #22
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philneast should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid

Matt Neal, if having no brain is a qualification.

His efforts at Bathurst in taking out most of a leading pack as they tried to put him another lap down will never be forgotten.

There is now the Matt Neal award for the stupidest move by a lapped car in taking out a race contender. Currently held by former CART driver Townsend Bell.


Back to Matt Neal, the guy can't even find his own pit. I guess it helps to have a rich daddy.
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Old 2 Dec 2002, 23:57 (Ref:441468)   #23
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Daz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally posted by Craig Antill
He's done a season in the MGF Cup, one in production touring cars and was then offered a ride at Triple Eight. Would you have declined that offer ?

Infact if you didn't know, Paul O'Neil done two seasons in MGF's. His first year was in 1999 racing for the new Bintcliffe Sport Racing team and he won the rookie of the year in MGF's that year in 1999. In 2000 Owy moved to Techspeed and stayed in the MGF's. 2001 saw Owy move in to the BTCC Production class claiming a pole position and several podium finishes, then for 2002 as we all know got a drive with egg sport and won a race in his very first year of the the touring class of the BTCC.
This guy has not got where he his just because of money but more importantly due to his driving ability and determination to suceed in motorsport.
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Old 3 Dec 2002, 01:12 (Ref:441491)   #24
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Originally posted by JEMMO
How about Tom Chilton?
I cant remember many races this year where he didnt take someone out or crash by himself.
I think that statement could apply to a lot of BTCC driver - not just Chilton. There have been, and I'm sure will be, drivers who have had more racing incidents than Tom Chilton has this year.
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Old 3 Dec 2002, 07:04 (Ref:441582)   #25
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So you dont reckon O'Neill was hired for his publicity producing relative more than his driving talent??

If Joe Bloggs from Liverpool were to show up with the exact same driving credentials I would doubt he would even get a test let alone a race drive in the BTCC
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