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26 Mar 2007, 03:43 (Ref:1876381) | #251 | ||
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June 15th Hockenhein, BT23, Manfred Mohr d.n.a.
interesting, anyone know which one please? Last edited by John Turner; 28 Mar 2007 at 09:08. |
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26 Mar 2007, 20:57 (Ref:1877072) | #252 | ||
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Now as for Perrot, Autosport had an interesting last paragraph on the F2 race on the 27th April.
I thought the BT23C was a replacement because the BT23 had been written off. My error. Perrot crashed but not badly, however a wayward Porsche 911 ended up on top of the Brabham (why hadn't they moved it?) and thats when major damage was done. Perrot simply shrugged his shoulders and said he would have to use the BT23C that he had bought. Andrew Last edited by John Turner; 28 Mar 2007 at 09:09. |
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27 Mar 2007, 23:55 (Ref:1878104) | #253 | |||
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I am adding this here as it may be something to do with BT23-3 -on the other hand it could be something else entirely!
Sport Auto No.122 March 72 Quote:
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10 Apr 2007, 23:51 (Ref:1888635) | #254 | ||
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BT23-6 RF10-01 FVA 7027
1967 Whitley Racing Services for Robin Widdows Crashed by Widdows and sold less engine & gearbox to Dr Ehrlich. 1968-71 Dr Ehrlich rebuilt by Frank Coltman for F3 1971-74 G.Hyatt 1974-77 R. Strange for hill climbs 1977-84 D. McLaughlin 1984-88 P. Coleman accident 1988 and sold to 1989-93 Chris Holland repaired the car with Mclaren M4A front suspension. Damaged again in 1989 at Donington 1993-97 Jay Galpin frame sent to Simon Hadfield who replaced all four corners and uprights, new body and seat and correct instruments. Missing plumbing, wiring, fuel tank, radiator, oil tank, half shafts, seatbelts and mirrors. 1997-00 Barry Marquardt 2000-05 Bob Baker 2006- David Jacobs Details in red are from a letter to Barry Marquart from Jay & Beverley Galpin in which he also refers to Ron Strange. He goes on to add that this car was very successful in HSCC events in Europe. Sorry Jay but I dont think I agree with you other point that '9 BT23s were made and only 13 BT23Cs but several more were made as spares so that they could be available as replacements because entrant rules were such that car tags were moved in the night. Andrew |
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12 Apr 2007, 10:09 (Ref:1889589) | #255 | ||
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I found that reference to Ribager's "BT30" so thought I'd add it in.
BT23-3 RF8 FVA 7003 1967 Frank Gardner 1968 Xavier Perrot, Günther Huber 1969 Badly damaged by Perrot at Nürburgring 27th April 1969 Jo Siffert sold to 1970-75 Jacques Joliat, CH. 1971 replaced FVA with FVC 1975-6 Michel Salvi, CH 1979 Alain Ribager has ex-Salvi "BT30" nr Mulhouse 1984 Gérard Gamand found nr Valance, France (500k from Mulhouse) with Renault engine 1989 Michel Champelovier sold to Hollinger 2006 Thierry De Mortier It's a bit difficult to nail down exactly when the car moves from Salvi to Ribager. In early 1977, Ribager has a 1300cc Brabham but Salvi also has a Brabham, given as a BT36-FVA. I would guess that Ribager has the BT23 from 1977 onwards but it's always possible that Salvi rebuilt and updated his BT21 and sold that to Ribager instead. Allen |
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14 Apr 2007, 22:11 (Ref:1891427) | #256 | ||
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BT23C-6, Arnold Charlton reported at the Highveld 100 in January 1971, so maybe it didn't return to England in 1970.
Andrew |
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14 Apr 2007, 22:21 (Ref:1891434) | #257 | ||
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Reported by who? He's not mentioned in any report I've ever seen.
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15 Apr 2007, 06:54 (Ref:1891560) | #258 | ||
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Hieronymus, (but not sure from where). He is very kindly going to try and ask Arnold Charlton -if he can find him.
Also; At the Bulawayo 100 in Rhodesia he entered for the race, but reports mentions that the car was still "not completed". After that race, no more mention whatsoever in local race reports. Completed after what I wonder? Too easy to assume blown FVA, but that's just guessing of course. |
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16 Apr 2007, 04:11 (Ref:1892669) | #259 | |||
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Quote:
Andrew |
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16 Apr 2007, 06:00 (Ref:1892690) | #260 | |||
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Quote:
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21 Apr 2007, 23:41 (Ref:1897323) | #261 | ||
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A/S August 20th 1970 p.53
BT23C, immaculate, rebuilt, with or without FVA...would consider Mk8 U2 in px Charlton, 16 Pasteur Chambers 191 Jeppe St, Johnannesburg So who bought it and took it back to the UK, by then an out of date car that then vanished without a whimper. Turned into something else perhaps? Andrew |
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2 May 2007, 21:18 (Ref:1905389) | #262 | ||
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Still on BT23-6 The names of Hyatt & Strange mean nothing to any of the UK owners post 1977 who all have been kind enough to reply to my questions.
Special thanks to Peter and Arlette Coleman, lovely to talk to you again after so many years. Andrew |
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3 May 2007, 07:01 (Ref:1905568) | #263 | |
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23c-10 is in the UK.Never went to South Africa.
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3 May 2007, 07:22 (Ref:1905576) | #264 | ||
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Ted I've just sent you a photo of Peter Parnell's two cars in 1969, can't post here 'cause it's copyright. I thought they were BT23C-6 & 10.
Andrew |
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3 May 2007, 07:23 (Ref:1905577) | #265 | |||
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Quote:
It then went via Bob Howlings (mid-1970) to Rod Pickering and then back via Howlings to Bob Snelson in 1973. We don't know how it got from Snelson to its current owner - can you help? Allen |
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4 May 2007, 07:42 (Ref:1906318) | #266 | |
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Allen. Sorry 23c-6 stayed in SA .10 came back .I thought you meant that they both stayed there . The photo in question.I think shows Parnells 23c and his "ex willment BT10 "?????????????????????????????
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4 May 2007, 07:45 (Ref:1906324) | #267 | ||
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The car in the picture is the FMG isn't it? Locally built thing that didn't pretend to be a Brabham even if it was very Brabham-ish.
According to stories further up this thread, both BT23Cs came back. The puzzle is what happened to BT23C-6 as it then disappears. |
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4 May 2007, 21:44 (Ref:1906844) | #268 | ||
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I will see if I can get permission to post the photo as this must be a bit annoying for everyone else.
Hieronymus suggests that the three cars are as follows; One for Parnell, one for John Amm and the other for Fred Goddard. The latter being the FMG, Fred's first car he built. I'm out of my depth again, how unusual. Andrew |
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8 May 2007, 08:25 (Ref:1908811) | #269 | ||
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Here's a strange thing.
Autosport 9 Jul 1970 has a feature on Frank Gardner and it mentions that there was a Brabham BT23C in the workshop, "a special works car on which Garnder has tested some tweaks for Brabham". The visit may have been late March 1970 but could have been as late as the end of June. Either date makes the presence of a "works" BT23C baffling. The article was written by Kettlewell so he won't have made a mistake on that. Allen |
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8 May 2007, 08:56 (Ref:1908829) | #270 | ||
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Amazing the things you spot when you're looking for something else. (I'd looked up ths issue of AS as it had a feature on Gardner and I'm doing a page on the Franklen.).
On page 4 is a mini-report on the Soissons hill climb which says that "second car was Swiss Kurt Buess in his recently acquired F2 Brabham-FVA BT23C" (ie BT23C-17) and right next to it a mention of "Northerner Stanley Robinson" who has a 1968 series FVA 'which he got when he bought the remains of the Ecurie Ecoss Brabham BT23C [BT23C-5] which Graham Birrell crashed very heavily as Ingliston a couple of months back. The very twisted chassis has been put aside ("for the time being")'. |
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8 May 2007, 22:00 (Ref:1909448) | #271 | ||
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A small update that may explain why BT23C-6 vanished so easily. It went to a UK dealer in px for a FF. The FF then had the chassis plate from the 23 put on it so it could enter South Africa duty free. Arnold Charlton sold the FF on arrival and the new owner wrote it off first time out.
That leaves one BT23C, ex Parnell, sans chassis plate, in 1970 back in the UK with a racing car dealer. WHO? It should have evidence of considerable repair (by Doug Serrurier) after Arnold had rolled 5 times at Roy Hesketh in Pietermaritzburg and put it through 2 barbed wire fences! |
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9 May 2007, 07:01 (Ref:1909599) | #272 | ||
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Maybe we can trace it via the FF? It might appear in adverts just before it was exchanged for the BT23C and that would tell us who the dealer was. What was it?
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10 May 2007, 21:35 (Ref:1910651) | #273 | |||
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OK, the odds are it was still in South Africa when the ad was placed in August.
Quote:
and about March 1971. |
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10 May 2007, 22:01 (Ref:1910671) | #274 | ||
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Can he remember the manufacturer and model? Just "a Formula Ford" isn't much to go on. I think there were several of them over here in 1970!
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11 May 2007, 00:03 (Ref:1910728) | #275 | ||
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I've done a search on this thread and cant find mention of this which I came across while looking for unknown BT23s in ads,
A/S Jan 22nd p.42 BT23C FVA rebuilt Alan Mann Racing £4,750 spare FVA available. I guess we all have a list of unknowns and one day it might be nice to collate them. I have a list of known phone numbers in case I can cross ref one, but to be any good such a list would have to be very much bigger than what I have done so far. |
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