Brabham BT23 - Page 20

Andrew Fellowes · 24 Feb 2009, 05:15 (Ref:2402898)

and there is this to consider on what looks like the ex Picchio Rosso car,

that begs more questions than it answers does it not?
Andrew

PZR · 24 Feb 2009, 09:21 (Ref:2402980)

Quote:

Originally Posted by allenbrown

By the way, it's interesting that the sports car team was Picchio Rosso and the F2 team Picchio Rossa. The Great Spotted Woodpecker (Dendrocopos major) is Picchio Rosso but I guess Picchio Rossa is a female woodpecker. I wonder if the two names were deliberate or if everyone has got the Rossa bit from F1R and it was a typo.

512S at Fuji Speedway, 5th September 1970:

allenbrown · 24 Feb 2009, 09:33 (Ref:2402987)

Quote:

Originally Posted by PZR

512S at Fuji Speedway, 5th September 1970:

Excellent. Thanks very much.

Andrew Fellowes · 25 Feb 2009, 21:21 (Ref:2404175)

BT23-5 is RF2

Andrew

Andrew Fellowes · 3 Mar 2009, 23:12 (Ref:2408511)

Quote:

Originally Posted by allenbrown

.........At some point in this thread we had Vigoureux in the ex-Bridges/Stiller BT23-9. Anyone remember the logic behind that one? If Franco Galli really did have a BT23 in March 1968, BT23-9 is the only serious contender isn't it?

so is this #9? I'm rather lost on this one,

Quote:

1969 July 20 C/C des Andelys, ASAC de l'Ouest
4th Etienne Vigoureux (Brabham F3)

source, Frank Verplanken

Andrew

Chris Townsend · 3 Mar 2009, 23:36 (Ref:2408524)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Fellowes

so is this #9? I'm rather lost on this one,

source, Frank Verplanken

Andrew

Vigoureux's car was chassis 8 I think. It was a one-off drive at Pau in F3, 1969. The car there is entered by Jolly Club and is described as ex Galli. I think now this has to be the Nanni Galli Alfa engined car, Goes to Pianta for 1968 and to Scuderia Parma Corse in F3 for Picchi in September that year. Then to Jolly Club early 1969 for Francisci. Later in the season used by Franco Bernabei: "ex Francisci" Monza F3 MN 2.10.69 p. 5, "ex Picchi then Francisci" [MN 4.12.69 p. 7. Probably to Marcello Gallo 1971, described as a BT23C, but also as ex Francisci.

I wonder if this is also the "BT23B" for sale by Diego Ritucci for sale in Autosprint 24.4-1.5.72 p. 51 perfect 1 litre engine various wheels and spares Via Andrea Doria, Torino. Don't think this can actually be one of the three real 23Bs and the 1 litre engine suggests a car used in F3 and made redundant by age and the 1600 cc rule

Chris

Andrew Fellowes · 4 Mar 2009, 00:30 (Ref:2408544)

so that this outing by Vigoureux on July 20th 1969 must have been another F3 Brabham altogether?

Andrew

Chris Townsend · 4 Mar 2009, 08:23 (Ref:2408638)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Fellowes

so that this outing by Vigoureux on July 20th 1969 must have been another F3 Brabham altogether?

Andrew

AS describes that car as ex Williams

Alan Brown · 1 Apr 2009, 08:13 (Ref:2430360)

In a piece about Wankel-engined competition cars in MN 28-5-70 reference is made to a Swiss garage owner, Samuel Hauser who had run Wankel-powered race cars in hill climbs. Firstly in 1966 a Cooper T72 with a Wankel Spyder engine which was later fitted into a Lotus 23 and then a twin-rotor Ro80 in a BT23 with a Colotti box. It was damaged in an accident at Marchairuz in 1969, but rebuilt. Which car?

grant levis · 28 May 2009, 06:19 (Ref:2470691)

Roly is very pleased to hear that Ted Wentz is intending to bring out BT23C/7 to NZ in January. Roly just told me today he was originally going to buy the car Brownlie got from Williams afew months later, but somehow it got put back in service & Frank convinced Roly he needed the later better car. Williams' team had done their own mods to /7 (extra braces in engine bay) & for a long time Roly thought the Brownlie car to be 23/1 not 23C/1 due to these changes. He also thinks that 23C's have larger top chassis tubes, is this right?
Regarding the Brownlie BT23 twincam car ( destroyed in crash with Hulme at Pukekohe Jan 68) he says it was not a 23, in fact more likely a clone, possibly with Lucas connection as Fred Mclean ( later FM in Begg cars) was there at time.

Grant Levis

Andrew Fellowes · 31 May 2009, 20:47 (Ref:2472920)

Hi Grant, I talked to Roly about Robertson's BT23C-17 (as I think at least 100 others have), what I forgot to do was to ask him if he thought it was indeed the car that Tom Donovan converted into a sports car and then subsequently destroyed in a fire at Frank Macskasy's?

I've also tried to find newspaper reports about the fire without much success!

Andrew

Andrew Fellowes · 26 Jun 2009, 22:35 (Ref:2491377)

Grant I have just had confirmation that BT23C-17 was indeed destroyed in the Wellington garage fire of 1978. Lloyd Evans saw the remains, what few parts were usable he took home with him. When Lloyd moved to Australia he left these bits behind.
Many thanks for all your help on this one!

Andrew Fellowes · 27 Jul 2009, 04:20 (Ref:2508823)

anyone able to tell me what tyres BT23s used in period?

thanks.

Alan Brown · 29 Jul 2009, 09:05 (Ref:2510585)

http://vdvgrant.be/sale.php

"Brabham BT23 F2 ex-works".

phdm · 29 Jul 2009, 09:07 (Ref:2510588)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Brown

http://vdvgrant.be/sale.php

"Brabham BT23 F2 ex-works".

No it is BT23-3.

SPman · 14 Aug 2009, 06:04 (Ref:2521157)

Quote:

Roly is very pleased to hear that Ted Wentz is intending to bring out BT23C/7 to NZ in January

So am I. That means I'll have to schedule a trip home then. Roly's car was the first BDA I heard - he circulated for a few laps at Puke by himself at a race meet and you could hear it right around the circuit. Magic! Glad to hear he's still alive and kicking.

Andrew Fellowes · 14 Aug 2009, 06:18 (Ref:2521160)

At the moment there are 4 23s that I know about entered, BT23C-1, BT23C-2, BT23C-7 and BT23C-15 and there will be battle royal will be between 7 & 15 if their recent race at Elkhart Lake is anything to go by.

Alan Drysdale · 6 Dec 2009, 20:23 (Ref:2595040)

Just had a quick glance through this thread. Apologies if I'm repeating something that has already been found out, but I've recently been chatting with Brian Cullen, Walter Kinnear and Maurice Stirling on a piece of research I was doing on Crossle 6Fs. Brian had previously raced a Crossle 6F that a mate I ran in F'Ford in 1970 which was subsequently raced by Roy Courtney and Maurice Stirling. The BT23s also came up in discussions.

BT23 - 1 was never owned by Roy Courtney. Maurice Stirling bought it from Nelson Todd. Nelson bought it from Walter Kinnear after Walter had binned it at Mondello Park and choose to buy a BT23C from Alastair Walker rather than fix BT23 -1. I think Eddie Fitzgerald has already clarified the latter point. Nelson Todd rebuilt BT23-1 to 23C spec.

Maurice Stirling believes that he sold BT23 -1 to Jimmy Murray; I'll try and confirm this with Jimmy and also try and find out who he sold it on to.

BT23C -11 was sold by Brian Cullen to Harold McGarrity and it was raced by both Harold and his brother Gerry. Maurice Stirling believes that it was this car that Roy Courtney ran in 'Irish Clubmans' in 1972, I've no idea who had it, here in Ireland, after Roy (who I think emigrated to Canada in the 80's) but will try and research further to fill the gaps.

Andrew Fellowes · 6 Dec 2009, 21:22 (Ref:2595059)

Welcome and thanks for the update, looking forward to more!
Andrew

allenbrown · 7 Dec 2009, 12:27 (Ref:2595433)

Thanks for your work on this Alan.

This is my understanding of the picture. There were three, possibly four, BT23-series Brabhams in Ireland:

Brabham BT23-1. Tommy Reid (Irish Racing Cars) August 1967 to July 1969 - Walter Kinnear 1970 until crashed into earth bank, bending the chassis at Mondello Park 3 Aug 1970 - to Nelson Todd and rebuilt as BT23C 1971 to June 1972 - Maurice Stirling for 1973 ... unsure thereafter

Brabham BT23C-11. Brian Cullen (from Bill Ivy) Aug/Sep 1969 to early 1971; entered for Lingard Goulding at Mondello Park 10 Jul 1971 ... unknown from then until April 1973 but maybe owned/used by Ted Shanahan OR the BT23 used by Roy Courtney in "club specials" races in 1972 ... Harold McGarrity for 1973 with a 1.6 Holbay Ford ... unsure therafter

Brabham BT23C-16. Walter Kinnear 1971 (from Walker) to end of 1972. Then via Blades to Applegarth ... unsure thereafter

The mystery appearances are Ted Shanahan at Mondello Park 10 Jul 1971 and Paddy Heron at Phoenix Park 7 Sep 1974.

Brian Speake · 11 Dec 2009, 21:59 (Ref:2598173)

I have this noted under BT23C/11 'sale Autosport 18.09.1975 as ex Ivy, championship winner last year, BT23C 1600 clubman in Glemgormley' no longer have the magazine so can't check it.

SAMD · 11 Dec 2009, 22:16 (Ref:2598180)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Speake

I have this noted under BT23C/11 'sale Autosport 18.09.1975 as ex Ivy, championship winner last year, BT23C 1600 clubman in Glemgormley' no longer have the magazine so can't check it.

Should be 'Glengormley' I think.
I think some of the McGarrity clan are from that area.

MONDELLO MAN · 11 Dec 2009, 23:24 (Ref:2598218)

Quote:

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Thanks for your work on this Alan.

This is my understanding of the picture. There were three, possibly four, BT23-series Brabhams in Ireland:

Brabham BT23-1. Tommy Reid (Irish Racing Cars) August 1967 to July 1969 - Walter Kinnear 1970 until crashed into earth bank, bending the chassis at Mondello Park 3 Aug 1970 - to Nelson Todd and rebuilt as BT23C 1971 to June 1972 - Maurice Stirling for 1973 ... unsure thereafter

Brabham BT23C-11. Brian Cullen (from Bill Ivy) Aug/Sep 1969 to early 1971; entered for Lingard Goulding at Mondello Park 10 Jul 1971 ... unknown from then until April 1973 but maybe owned/used by Ted Shanahan OR the BT23 used by Roy Courtney in "club specials" races in 1972 ... Harold McGarrity for 1973 with a 1.6 Holbay Ford ... unsure therafter

Brabham BT23C-16. Walter Kinnear 1971 (from Walker) to end of 1972. Then via Blades to Applegarth ... unsure thereafter

The mystery appearances are Ted Shanahan at Mondello Park 10 Jul 1971 and Paddy Heron at Phoenix Park 7 Sep 1974.

I corrected mn report on the Shanahan car , think it was ex Eiffland , Ted now rip

allenbrown · 12 Dec 2009, 12:23 (Ref:2598449)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MONDELLO MAN

I corrected mn report on the Shanahan car , think it was ex Eiffland , Ted now rip

That's distinctly possible. Bernd Terbeck ran BT23C-8 as an Eifelland entry and his car vanishes after the 1969 season but then pops up again in UK club racing in 1973.

Andrew Fellowes · 12 Dec 2009, 22:02 (Ref:2598673)

so I can amend this, Shanahan was a bit of a puzzle.
BT23C-8
1968 Kurt Ahrens
1969 Bernd Terbeck
possibly Ted Shanahan, Mondello Park 10th July 1971
1973 Graham Cooper
1974 Graham Cooper sold to Richard Churchley
1977 Bill Morris
1977 Les Aylott/David Knowles
1984 Peter Rogers
2006 David Brown

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