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Old 9 Jul 2018, 17:43 (Ref:3835713)   #26
crmalcolm
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Originally Posted by GregUK View Post
1992 - Mansell chasing down Senna.

Senna won by just 0.215 seconds
Is this being cited as an example of the better racing from the past?

Senna got a better start into turn 1 - and then for 70 laps it was a 'follow my leader until a pit stop' kind of race....

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Originally Posted by morninggents View Post
Of course the old times looked better - because they were - the racing was much superior to todays follow my leader until a pitstop farces.
Then - in a car that was over 2secs a lap quicker - Mansell was unable to overtake.

Patrese - couldn't attack Senna due to gearbox issues.
Schumacher - passed Alesi after gearbox issues.

Only 12 cars finished - only 6 cars on the lead lap.
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Old 9 Jul 2018, 17:52 (Ref:3835715)   #27
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Not sure we need pre qualifying, but we do almost certainly need more cars on the grid. 20 ain’t enough, we need a few more
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Old 9 Jul 2018, 18:19 (Ref:3835720)   #28
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GregUK should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Despite the title, I'm not advocating pre-qualy. I would like to see more than 20 cars though but...
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Old 9 Jul 2018, 18:58 (Ref:3835736)   #29
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Oh, and the Monaco race when Mansell was climbing all over who I can't remember for lap after lap to try to win the race.
Yeah, and as it was pointed out, he did not manage because Monaco. Otherwise he would have breathed past as easy as Hamilton did assisted with DRS because his car was so much faster.

Dijon 79 is remembered for Arnoux - Villeneuve. What everyone forgets is that the 90% of the race before that clash was totally uneventful.

Other example: Suzuka 2000 was a total thriller despite no on track overtakes for the lead (and championship). Good racing does not need many overtakes, it needs equally fast cars and the chance that a pass might be on. Just as Silverstone presented us with in the last 10 laps this year.

Yes, that was assisted by the safety car due to drivers having crashed before. Otherwise it would have been quite boring for the lead. So what? That is not how it turned out.
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Old 9 Jul 2018, 20:52 (Ref:3835750)   #30
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Originally Posted by GregUK View Post
Remember the days when:
  • a Silverstone F1 grid would be covered by less than 2 seconds?
Never, ever, ever?
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Old 9 Jul 2018, 20:59 (Ref:3835753)   #31
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I remember when the Nige was almost 2s quicker than the next car.
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Old 9 Jul 2018, 21:24 (Ref:3835758)   #32
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Never, ever, ever?
1987 - 27 cars within 2 seconds. Unfortunately only 26 were allowed on the grid.

See post #8
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Old 9 Jul 2018, 21:47 (Ref:3835765)   #33
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Originally Posted by GregUK View Post
1987 - 27 cars within 2 seconds. Unfortunately only 26 were allowed on the grid.

See post #8
Assuming you mean 1977?

But due to the grid restriction, <2s covering the grid is not the full picture.
Eliminating the backmarkers from the qualifying spread will naturally narrow the performance range.

Apply the same principle of 1977 to 2018 and we get the following situation:
Slowest 10% of cars are discounted from results as they probably had mistakes on their laps.
1977 Pole 1:18.490 10% of field (3 cars from 30) leaves slowest at 1:20.460
2018 Q1 fastest 1:26.585 10% of field (2 cars from 20) leaves slowest to set a time at 1:28.456

1977 and 2018 field spread of top 90% is <2s - so the field is just as competitive today as it was then.
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Old 9 Jul 2018, 21:51 (Ref:3835766)   #34
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1977 you could still build an F1 car in your garage with some mates and tow it down the track behind a Transit.
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Old 9 Jul 2018, 22:26 (Ref:3835767)   #35
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And put a cosworth DFV in the back
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Old 9 Jul 2018, 22:33 (Ref:3835768)   #36
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Originally Posted by Armco Bender View Post
1977 you could still build an F1 car in your garage with some mates and tow it down the track behind a Transit.
That's the best part of the old racing, a decent budget and a brilliant kid (yes cause you hired him on the cheap cause he's fresh out of school with grand ideas) makes a race team with a shot. Now it's the GIANT budget of a small country with ALL the computing power of 2000 and you're at the back of the grid.
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Old 10 Jul 2018, 02:17 (Ref:3835789)   #37
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
Assuming you mean 1977?
Indeed.
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Old 10 Jul 2018, 08:31 (Ref:3835828)   #38
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I remember the good old days when about half the cars would break down every race. Those nostalgic for those good days would do well to remember the bad as well as the good. You would typically only have half the field finishing, which was not exactly good for the show.
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Old 10 Jul 2018, 08:40 (Ref:3835829)   #39
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Originally Posted by steve_r View Post
I remember the good old days when about half the cars would break down every race. Those nostalgic for those good days would do well to remember the bad as well as the good. You would typically only have half the field finishing, which was not exactly good for the show.
Exactly. I can't imagine fans of F1 who only remember the last 10-25 years being interested in a race where:

Only 5 cars finished on the lead lap.
The last classified position was 6 laps down on the leader.
The number of retirements due to mechanical issues was in double figures.
11 entrants failed to make the starting grid.


That race being the wonderful time when <2s covered the whole grid......
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Old 10 Jul 2018, 10:13 (Ref:3835842)   #40
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GingerPixel should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridGingerPixel should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Aren't the days being reminisced over here also the ones where people won by about 3 hours, 5 cars finished and someone inevitably died?
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Old 10 Jul 2018, 11:28 (Ref:3835856)   #41
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Enough of this technology. Bring back hand cranks to start the engines!
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Old 10 Jul 2018, 11:38 (Ref:3835859)   #42
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Mekola should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMekola should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMekola should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
1977 was the year my father (in my previous life) commited suicide,
was a very sad year for me. My mother was ruined shortly afterwards.

Even I am a high-rank Tom Pryce fan, and am very fond of Welsh culture thanks to him. Also have a great respect for David Purley and the Kojima men.

About precualification, last race it was that thing was Spa 1992, the day Perry did the test on the Andrea Moda and when Max ousted them for "disreputing the sport", shortly before re-moving Simtek to Bravo and then their own project. Simtek was March with other name -this is well-known..- and good Max wanted to still be here... Wonder if he still IS here... With another "M" team...
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Old 17 Jul 2018, 20:25 (Ref:3837173)   #43
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Now here's a topic that always fascinates me.
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Old 18 Jul 2018, 22:17 (Ref:3837404)   #44
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It is always great to look upon "the good old days" but we shouldn't assume the racing itself to be better than what we have or will have. Racing will always change and we won't return to the past in any professional category of motor racing ever. However, we can learn from it and try to make it so we can enjoy the future as well. It is wonderful to see so many amazing moments, races and years but we very easily forget the boring and dull as well.
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Old 18 Jul 2018, 22:54 (Ref:3837408)   #45
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It is always great to look upon "the good old days" but we shouldn't assume the racing itself to be better than what we have or will have. Racing will always change and we won't return to the past in any professional category of motor racing ever. However, we can learn from it and try to make it so we can enjoy the future as well. It is wonderful to see so many amazing moments, races and years but we very easily forget the boring and dull as well.
Interesting Point
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