Supercars Gen 3 (2022)

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Is it now. Says who? You? That makes it gospel?

I'm not sure if you're referring to my whole post or part of it?

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

Originally Posted by Juarez Jed

The teams seem to want to keep the engineering level high with Supercars

Yes, this is another way of saying supercars is a clique.

Originally Posted by benny41

By bringing in franchise agreements , big tv money, expectation on teams ect the series became professional. Ultimately a bunch of decisions led to this

Professional is relative. "Supercars" is just a formalisation rather than a transformation to professionalism. It was successful in increasing the costs of running at the back.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

Yes, this is another way of saying supercars is a clique.

Ahhhh - no, not at all. It is pointing out the reality that teams enjoy engineering their cars and rule makers trying to control costs or performance are always going to come up against some team resistance - has been the same for decades in motorsport generally.

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

Professional is relative. "Supercars" is just a formalisation rather than a transformation to professionalism. It was successful in increasing the costs of running at the back.

Ahhhh - no, not at all on this one either. For example, as we rolled out of 1999 into 2000, all of the Supercar teams had a number of "weekend warriors" who only worked at race meetings and a much smaller core of full or part timers, depending on the team, there was one B double in pit lane (HRT) and although professional in attitude, none of the teams were full-time professionals across all team roles.

Only a few short years later, all the teams had B doubles (I think that GRM held out the longest on that from memory - Garry didn't see the need for a long time), all team roles were full-time professional employees.

That was the "transformation to professionalism" as you describe it.

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Ahhhh - no, not at all. It is pointing out the reality that teams enjoy engineering their cars and rule makers trying to control costs or performance are always going to come up against some team resistance - has been the same for decades in motorsport generally.

Nope. The rules remain with a higher, and unique, engineering capacity to keep the status quo (Which is not supposed to happen in a real competition).

If it was any other way, the value of the teams decreases.

Originally Posted by Tourer

Ahhhh - no, not at all on this one either. For example, as we rolled out of 1999 into 2000, all of the Supercar teams had a number of "weekend warriors" who only worked at race meetings and a much smaller core of full or part timers, depending on the team, there was one B double in pit lane (HRT) and although professional in attitude, none of the teams were full-time professionals across all team roles.

Only a few short years later, all the teams had B doubles (I think that GRM held out the longest on that from memory - Garry didn't see the need for a long time), all team roles were full-time professional employees.

That was the "transformation to professionalism" as you describe it.

Weekend warriors - A term to denigrate competitors with less time and money by those who aren't good enough for F1, but have the means to participate "professionally" to a degree.

"Professionalism" is an expression rather than something definitive. The "transformation to professionalism" as you've described is is merely superficial. All of sudden, having a B double is a reflection of professionalism.

If I turn up to a Vic state round with a B double to transport a MGF to compete in MG/Invited British cars, does that mean I'm professional? No it doesn't. But that type of spending satisfies the collective ego of the supercars community. It's also professional to have mechanics work 18 hour days everyday for 4 months. "We're more hardcore than F1. If you don't do that, you're not taking it seriously."

If you're not good enough for F1, but don't want a real job. Supercars is there for you.

It's good you brought up GRM. Because in the whirlwind of transforming into "professionalism", the inherent character of amateurism is highlighted and or remains.

Garry Rogers is an amateur. Racing was secondary to his real vocation. As a "racer", he only looks to do things on the cheap or of some value. He's not a cut throat winner. Which is why his team has almost all the time been average.

BJR - Despite the illusion of Brad Jones possibly being talented, and the misplaced chip on the shoulder Kim has. They are what they've always been, country battlers.

Kelly's - Classic example of rich kids too **** for genuinely serious motor racing, but wanted to play as professional racing drivers. Their dad bought their way into some success and profile in supercars, and they sort of trade off that.

When they're not carried by Holden/TWR in the early days and had to do things on their own. They are what they are, average.

They've effectively replaced the role of the Lansvale guys. But they spent a lot more money, and didn't have the humility to get a real job.

[Speedy400]

Professional:

1.
relating to or belonging to a profession.

2.
engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as an amateur.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

Nope. The rules remain with a higher, and unique, engineering capacity to keep the status quo (Which is not supposed to happen in a real competition).

Just like F1, WRC, GT, prototype racing, Indy, NASCAR - even your beloved TCR.

Nothing whatsoever to do with the "clique" you previously mentioned and everything to do with running a racing category.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Speedy400

Professional:

1.
relating to or belonging to a profession.

2.
engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as an amateur.

Thanks Speedy - number 2 nails it as far as Supercars is concerned, full-time, professional drivers and teams.

by the way 2LTCS, I only mentioned trucks as an illustrative point and although you choose to mock some teams (and none are perfect, being run by humans) they are in fact professional.

[bloxsidgemotorsport]

when your paid to do that as a job, well that's your profession.

Therefore majority of V8 supercar team members are professional staff, with teams run as professional organizations.

Now where the money comes to run the teams can be argued about I.e sponsorship, rich families, rich daddies, manufactures etc. But that is no different than Premier League Soccer, NBA, NFL who have a variety of owners who may not care about making a profit. But all the work of those organizations are professionals, paid to do their jobs to the best of their abilities.

It interesting alot of people yearn for the days of the privateer teams/ week warriors. Yes they were great time and sometimes a miracle occurred where they would win. But most of time they were cannon fodder.

I use dirt track Sprintcars as an example, anyone can buy a car and race it. But if you want to win, be prepared to spend a small fortune to build a semi professional team. The best teams currently in Australia have full time crew cheifs, paid pit crew during season. Not to mention lots and lots of spares to run at the top level all season and prepared to go 10/10ths.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by bloxsidgemotorsport

when your paid to do that as a job, well that's your profession.

Therefore majority of V8 supercar team members are professional staff, with teams run as professional organizations.

Now where the money comes to run the teams can be argued about I.e sponsorship, rich families, rich daddies, manufactures etc. But that is no different than Premier League Soccer, NBA, NFL who have a variety of owners who may not care about making a profit. But all the work of those organizations are professionals, paid to do their jobs to the best of their abilities.

It interesting alot of people yearn for the days of the privateer teams/ week warriors. Yes they were great time and sometimes a miracle occurred where they would win. But most of time they were cannon fodder.

I use dirt track Sprintcars as an example, anyone can buy a car and race it. But if you want to win, be prepared to spend a small fortune to build a semi professional team. The best teams currently in Australia have full time crew cheifs, paid pit crew during season. Not to mention lots and lots of spares to run at the top level all season and prepared to go 10/10ths.

In sprintcars anyone has the opportunity to have a go though

[bloxsidgemotorsport]

Originally Posted by one five five

In sprintcars anyone has the opportunity to have a go though

Supercars anyone can have a go. They can enter as a wildcard for a set number of rounds. If you want to run fulltime you need a franchise (rec).

As for drivers they must have or obtain a superlicence. Something Cams and Supercars set up as their driving standard rightly or wrongly.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by bloxsidgemotorsport

Supercars anyone can have a go. They can enter as a wildcard for a set number of rounds. If you want to run fulltime you need a franchise (rec).

You have to be “approved” as a wildcard. having an eligible car is not enough (Nor in a drivers case is just having the right licence)

Originally Posted by bloxsidgemotorsport

for drivers they must have or obtain a superlicence. Something Cams and Supercars set up as their driving standard rightly or wrongly.

Surely the Superlicence was set up as a money making exercise, it’s an extra licence they can charge for?

[bloxsidgemotorsport]

Originally Posted by one five five

You have to be “approved” as a wildcard. having an eligible car is not enough (Nor in a drivers case is just having the right licence)



Surely the Superlicence was set up as a money making exercise, it’s an extra licence they can charge for?

I'm sure if you bought a eligible car with a professional plan you would be accepted.

I agree a super-licence is load of crap, if you can drive a gt3 car, tcr or s5000 you can surely drive a v8 supercar. , but they are the gamemasters therefore they decide the entry rules.

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Just like F1, WRC, GT, prototype racing, Indy, NASCAR - even your beloved TCR.

Nothing whatsoever to do with the "clique" you previously mentioned and everything to do with running a racing category.

It's a clique, and exists due to self interest (The ol' Paul Keating line). Any variation means the teams a devalued. It's the reason why they didn't join forces with DTM and Super GT.

Originally Posted by Speedy400

Professional:

1.
relating to or belonging to a profession.

2.
engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as an amateur.

Dear Speedy,

I read you comment saying you did want to get involved chatting with me. I accepted that comment and never quoted you til now.

However, I quote you this time to acknowledge that while you're not interested in talking to me. Almost all the time my posts are followed by you posting some type contrary comment or attempt to diminish the point I made.

Is there something you want to say? I'm giving you the clear air to do so.

I think it's great that you know the dictionary definition of "professional". The relevant question is, do you understand how that applies in real life terms in the Australian motorsport community?

Regards,

2 litre Touring Car Star.

[Speedy400]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

It's a clique, and exists due to self interest (The ol' Paul Keating line). Any variation means the teams a devalued. It's the reason why they didn't join forces with DTM and Super GT.


Dear Speedy,

I read you comment saying you did want to get involved chatting with me. I accepted that comment and never quoted you til now.

However, I quote you this time to acknowledge that while you're not interested in talking to me. Almost all the time my posts are followed by you posting some type contrary comment or attempt to diminish the point I made.

Is there something you want to say? I'm giving you the clear air to do so.

I think it's great that you know the dictionary definition of "professional". The relevant question is, do you understand how that applies in real life terms in the Australian motorsport community?

Regards,

2 litre Touring Car Star.

You can’t use logic to argue with people who didn’t use it to reach their viewpoint in the first place...

[tobyobi]

Hey look, actual news!

Camaro in. More requirements to keep road car dimensions. Less downforce. Doesn’t sound terrible to me.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/motorsp...b721661ea7c1d4

[S griffin]

That car certainly looks the business, let’s hope it does the same on track

[one five five]

Originally Posted by S griffin

That car certainly looks the business, let’s hope it does the same on track

Just a pity nobody watching in Australia can buy the car......

You could buy a Nissan GTR R32 in Australia after all......

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by one five five

Just a pity nobody watching in Australia can buy the car......

You could buy a Nissan GTR R32 in Australia after all......

By 2022 the car may well be back on sale, could be back available in 2021 but under the GMSV banner rather than HSV - not confirmed publicly yet so it could go either way.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by one five five

Just a pity nobody watching in Australia can buy the car......



You could buy a Nissan GTR R32 in Australia after all......

But not a Turbo Bluebird, Group A Mustang or Sierra, or a Seat TCR car... How many did I miss?

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by one five five

Just a pity nobody watching in Australia can buy the car......

You could buy a Nissan GTR R32 in Australia after all......

But I couldn't buy a Sierra!!

[V8 Fireworks]

And then there were two:




I presume that's the actual new wheel design, which looks suitably modern.

No more silly rear wing endplates, a new front splitter design too.

Key to the technical specification is a car that is 100mm lower and 100mm wider.

Good! If I am not mistaken, those almost look like 19" wheels too but that remains to be confirmed.

Supercars has stipulated that the doors, roof, bonnet, and windows of the race car will have the same key dimensions as the road cars they are based upon.

Good!

Weight will be reduced by 100kg and power reduced to 600hp @ max 7500rpm also.

“The cars will retain their signature V8 engine format to ensure they’re fast and loud, but will be ‘hybrid ready’ and more closely resemble the road cars they are based on.

Hybrid ready!

Originally Posted by Joe5619

But I couldn't buy a Sierra!!

I agree, it was a farce that Ford Australia did not import/manufacture the iconic Sierra and Sierra Cosworth. The mid-size offering was the Ford Telstar which was a very poor substitute.

[tux]

Similar car to now right? Like a traditional touring car build rather than DTM silhouette?

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by tux

Similar car to now right? Like a traditional touring car build rather than DTM silhouette?

It's still a silhouette car built around a spaceframe.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

But I couldn't buy a Sierra!!

Precisely, and criticism’s were levelled at Group A because of it, and one of the main drivers behind the formation of the V8 rules for 1993 was getting back to cars that Australians could buy....

.....and here we are now lauding a Camaro entering the series.....a car which cannot be bought in Australia now.....

Supercars making it all up as they go along , no matter the hypocrisy of it all, as usual

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by one five five

Precisely, and criticism’s were levelled at Group A because of it

But that wasn't Group A's fault, that was Ford Australia's fault!

People aspire to own a Sierra Cosworth, a Sapphie Cosworth, the everyman supercar, a truly incredible machine, but Ford Australia would rather bring in mediocre Telstars...