Marshal's Wish List

[Richard Duvall]

I’m getting bored with the silly season threads so I thought I’d raise something more serious.

I’m sure that I’m not alone in thinking that facilities for marshals often leave a lot to be desired, so I thought it might be useful to start a “wish list”. Most of them would require little effort or cost to resolve. I do most of my marshalling a Brands Hatch, so most of my comments are specific to that circuit but no doubt will ring true for other circuits as well.

1. Camping / caravanning facilities – it would nice to have electric hook-ups for caravans. They’re already available in the paddock and there are some in the grass areas next to the camping field, just out of reach!

2. Car parking – most of the time we park in the upper paddock where our cars are reasonably safe, but for larger meetings when we have to park outside in “The Triangle” they are much more vulnerable and I think there have been some thefts/ damage. Not too big an issue for me personally as I am usually parked by my caravan in the campsite.

3. Flags – many of the slightly newer flags are constructed from heavy broom handle size wood with heavy water absorbing material. They are also on the large side and very unwieldy to use. Older varieties have a better nylon type material but are suffering from age and have been known to detach themselves from their stick when waved!

4. SC & Hazard boards – it wouldn’t take too much effort to provide some form of support for these at each flag point so that they can be displayed facing the oncoming drivers. Most of the time, hazard boards end up being wedged into the catch fencing where they are nigh on invisible!

5. Toilets – too many of the posts do not have decent toilets within reasonable reach (a filthy chemical toilet with no chemical is not decent!). Not long ago, I was privileged to marshal at Abu Dhabi where they have flushing toilets on every post!

6. Brooms – how many times have you gone out to sweep the track only to have the head fall off your broom?

7. Communications – this has probably been done to death in other specific threads, but it remains an issue as the phones often don’t work properly and can’t be reached if you’re away from the hut.

8. Huts – whilst most of the posts on the Indy circuit have the relatively new fibre glass huts, many of them have missing or broken windows and doors that don’t close and some are prone to flooding in wet weather. Those on the GP circuit are all of the old “sentry box” variety, open to the elements.

9. Gravel traps – not sure if it is a real risk, but I’ve always been concerned that there are many large lumps of flint buried in the gravel and it worries me what damage they might cause if thrown up by a car in the gravel.

[Mark Mitchell]

Interesting that you are more concerned about your caravan than being able to communicate effectively with Race Control lol!
IIRC, most of what you wish for is already being addressed by a Marshals Working Group (Or whatever it's called) together with the various Circuit owners.

[m1fcf]

Originally Posted by Mark Mitchell

IIRC, most of what you wish for is already being addressed by a Marshals Working Group (Or whatever it's called) together with the various Circuit owners.

Page 11 of the latest MSA magazine gives you the names and email addresses of that Working Group.

Check it online via the MSA website.

[M Greenslade]

Hmmm, me think the lady doth protest too much....

Bladders....

[deley]

Richard

Most, if not all, are probably on the "list" but I would suggest a direct note to Peter Scillitoe as the marshals’ representative for BH (or I am sure he will pop up on here at some point).

Dave

[expaddockrunner]

i know it may seem silly!!

timetables that have reasonable lunch breaks

[MagnetON]

Originally Posted by Richard Duvall

1. Camping / caravanning facilities – it would nice to have electric hook-ups for caravans. They’re already available in the paddock and there are some in the grass areas next to the camping field, just out of reach!

Park your shed closer, or buy a 50m extension cable.

[Peter Scillitoe]

Originally Posted by deley

Richard

Most, if not all, are probably on the "list" but I would suggest a direct note to Peter Scillitoe as the marshals’ representative for BH (or I am sure he will pop up on here at some point).

Dave

Here I am "popping up".

Richard

You have obviously not bothered to read either your recent copy of The Marshal or the MSA Magazine Winter 2011 which, as others have already mentioned, gave the contact addresses for the new circuit marshals representatives; I am the representatative for Brands Hatch.

Please address these issues to me by email, and I will respond accordingly. As Dave says, most - if not all - are on the 'list' anyway and are already under discussion with MSV. Indeed at least one on your list was sorted out as long ago as last September.

The marshal who asked about lunch breaks needs to address the organising club direct; the marshals representatives are primarily concerned with issues which are the direct responsibility of the circuit owner.

[MacGWC]

I am glad Peter Scillitoe has “popped up” on this debate; his contribution describes the situation well.

For those that missed it, this was the announcement that appeared in the November 2011 edition of The Marshal:

“Arising from a Marshals’ Club suggestion, the circuit owners (AMRCO) have approved a list of marshals’ representatives at all major race circuits throughout the country. The list was selected by the Management Committee of the ABMRC, which represents all organising clubs recognised at the MSA. The chosen representatives, therefore, come from a wide range of clubs and marshalling organisations.

The idea is that there should be an appointed representative at each circuit, to whom marshals can go with legitimate concerns about marshalling facilities, matters of safety or convenience, suggestions, etc, etc in the reasonable presumption that something will be done. If there are reasons why nothing will or can be done, hopefully the communication system will work equally well in reverse.

Why are we doing this? To try remove some of the ambiguity and contradiction from the present system, where a variety of people approach circuit management personnel with what often turn out to be contradictory requests. Hopefully, by asking that such requests be routed through the appointed representatives, they will have the chance to discuss the merits of each suggestion with circuit management to come up with a solution that suits all.

However, the intention is not to totally supersede all existing arrangements. Where there is an already recognised system of circuit reports submitted by Post Chiefs at the end of each meeting, and that system is working well, it will be sufficient perhaps to let the appointed representative know what is going and rely upon the representative to follow up if no action on reported issues is forthcoming.

If all this fails and there is still serious discontent amongst the marshals, what next? Then the appointed representative should approach the marshalling representative on the ABMRC for the matter to be raised there. (Currently George Copeland of the Marshals’ Club nat.treasurer@marshals.co.uk) Both Alan Gow, Chairman of the MSA, and Colin Hilton, MSA Chief Executive, attend these meetings. Hopefully, we should be able to broker some mutually agreed solution there.”

As Peter points out, correctly, this process deals mainly with matters that fall within the responsibility of the circuit owner, but since the two biggest circuit operators have also become the two biggest organising clubs, they will often be one and the same. However, if there are cases where the problem lies with the organising club and it cannot be resolved locally, please do not hesitate to let me know and I will raise it at the ABMRC, where all the organising clubs are represented.

So far the system seems to be working well and there have been constructive meetings at most UK circuits in the past few weeks.

George Copeland
National Treasurer BMMC

[Richard Duvall]

Originally Posted by Peter Scillitoe

You have obviously not bothered to read either your recent copy of The Marshal or the MSA Magazine Winter 2011 which, as others have already mentioned, gave the contact addresses for the new circuit marshals representatives; I am the representatative for Brands Hatch.

Not true! I had read the article but thought that some public debate on this forum would be useful as there is little visibility of what action is being taken behind the scenes. Don't get me wrong; this is in no way a jibe against you, or anyone else, as I have the greatest respect for you and all the work you do! I will email my comments to you as requested.

[racerkeke]

Originally Posted by MacGWC

For those that missed it, this was the announcement that appeared in the November 2011 edition of The Marshal:

“Arising from a Marshals’ Club suggestion, the circuit owners (AMRCO) have approved a list of marshals’ representatives at all major race circuits throughout the country...."

The group is REALLY called Armco? Holy cow. What a hoot!
(Yes, I know it is misspelled. Someone should mention it to them to fix that...)
keke

[Sparky-steve]

to nip back to the thread title

an item on my wish list would be some entertaining racing and less running around the track as a train. 2011 is over 2012 come on give us something to watch whilst on duty, and good size grids might be nice too..

[Mike Kelly 1]

Steve, you've missed the point of the thread which is:- "I’m sure that I’m not alone in thinking that facilities for marshals often leave a lot to be desired, so I thought it might be useful to start a “wish list”. Most of them would require little effort or cost to resolve. I do most of my marshalling a Brands Hatch, so most of my comments are specific to that circuit but no doubt will ring true for other circuits as well."

Big grid sizes are not something that i think are covered by "facilities"

[NewYankee01]

May I suggest a seemingly age-old point for flaggies being flag holders.

There's only been two places that have them in i've been to, though it could be solved in a number of ways. No need for clips, if the post has a concrete base simply drilling holes won't cost a thing (the poles shouldn't be snapped by accident, because the only ones who will be close to the flags... is a careful and responsible flaggie!).

Another way which will only cost a couple of quid I can imagine is to bolt a simple square wooden frame with holes to the ground.

There's loads of different ways to do it but we need them after some people have wanted them for donkeys years and it would be a simple but effective change. Anything will be better than trying to balance thin poles while its windy and have them blow over literally every 10 seconds. And then quickly give up!

[Mark Mitchell]

That's all part of flagging fun NY

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by Mark Mitchell

That's all part of flagging fun NY

[Mike Kelly 1]

Originally Posted by NewYankee01

May I suggest a seemingly age-old point for flaggies being flag holders.

There's loads of different ways to do it but we need them after some people have wanted them for donkeys years and it would be a simple but effective change. Anything will be better than trying to balance thin poles while its windy and have them blow over literally every 10 seconds. And then quickly give up!

Zandvoort has a set of metal tubes mounted on the inside wall of the flagging points. Ideally placed for putting the flags in. Keeps them close to hand without them falling over or getting damaged.

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly 1

Zandvoort has a set of metal tubes mounted on the inside wall of the flagging points. Ideally placed for putting the flags in. Keeps them close to hand without them falling over or getting damaged.

Metal toobs. Now you're talking!

[m1fcf]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly 1

Zandvoort has a set of metal tubes mounted on the inside wall of the flagging points. Ideally placed for putting the flags in. Keeps them close to hand without them falling over or getting damaged.

The times I have flagged, I have found the protective fencing useful for holding the flags off of the ground. By putting the first two/three inches of the pole (flag end first) through the hole, and letting gravity do it's work.

[Greem]

Wow. I agree with NY on something

Seriously though; there are standard minimum dimensions for flags, so it isn't too much of a stretch to ensure they aren't made of sackcloth and a broom handle, is it? Also ensuring they can be stored whilst in use properly might mean they stay marginally close to their intended colour.

Cue those with years of experience recounting the time they had to wave a yellow flag made of woven rope on a length of lead pipe for 48 hours (with one arm). Us (relative) youngsters don't know how good we have it!

[Mark Mitchell]

Can I be...... er......I dunno, awkward here?

We moan about the state of Circuit flags (Have moaned too) BUT........
perhaps we should really be using our own set? (Warming the car up......in readiness for a quick escape!)

As an Observer () I am expected to turn up armed with something to write with, and something to write on. Most Observers will have a stopwatch and some have binocculars.

Incident Marshals will have kit relevant to their duty (Belt cutter, screwdriver etc) "Tools Of The Trade" perhaps.

So, shouldn't flaggies be encouraged to use their own kit?
Benefits are :-
They are weighted to your specific needs
They will probably be kept in a clean & tidy condition.

Circuits/Venues are probably required by the authorities to provide flags but I'm not sure it says they have to "Look After" them!

In my paid job, I am provided with kit but choose to use my own. Therefore, when I am assessing or treating a patient, I know the equipment I'm using is in tip-top condition!

(Car is started.........making a dash for it now )

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Mark Mitchell

Incident Marshals will have kit relevant to their duty (Belt cutter, screwdriver etc) "Tools Of The Trade" perhaps.

If incident marshals start bringing their own extinguishers I'll accept that I should be bringing my own flags. You'll be wanting PCs to bring their own chairs next

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Woolley

If incident marshals start bringing their own extinguishers

Those Rally types?

[Woolley]

I thought that even as I pressed the send button! Then again, they bring stoves, radios, a complete Bob the Builder toolkit, winches, Land Rovers...

[Norbert]

Originally Posted by Woolley

If incident marshals start bringing their own extinguishers I'll accept that I should be bringing my own flags. You'll be wanting PCs to bring their own chairs next

I was on post at Wiscombe Park a few years ago and one of my crew DID have his own extinguisher!