Using a Puma in stockhatch?

[rallycrosscraig]

anyone else thought about using a Ford Puma 1.4 16v in stockhatch?

would it be eligble?
would it be any good?

how heavy is a Puma?

[HrRACING]

I've though about it, have tryed to think of an unusual car to use, but would have though the Puma is a heavy beast! Not sure though!

How come the 205 is for sale Craig?

[rallycrosscraig]

205 now sold, very sad to let it go - had only just got to my first A final...

Only sold it as had nowhere safe to keep it anymore.

Hopefuly will have somewhere sorted in the next few months though and will be back out!

[HrRACING]

If you dont mind me asking, who bought it? You seemed really quick at Lydden?

Good luck with sorting space for a new car!

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by rallycrosscraig

would it be eligble?
would it be any good?
how heavy is a Puma?

Interesting idea. I don't see why it wouldn't be eligible as a hatchback - its a fiesta with a new body really. However in stock trim its 0-60 isn't that impressive (about 11s) and it weighs well over 1,000 kgs. It only claimed 90 bhp and a 205 is over 100. And there's the cost - the donor models still aren't cheap and I doubt the panels will be either!

Reckon you'd have your work cut out but it would be good to see someone try something a bit different

[bigted]

the 1.7 weighs in at 1050 kg, but there is a lot of plastic and interior bits in there.

[bigted]

i think it opens up a whole new discusion.

what new shape car could be used as a stock hatch.

[silver bullet]

Would the Ka not have a better power to weight ratio than the Puma?

[HrRACING]

Do they do a 1.4 16v Dave? They don't look good in stock trim though do they! hehe.

I've really though about doing something 'different', its bloody hard!

What about a Polo 1.4 16v?

[bigted]

Nissan Micra 1.4 16v, (and it would roll nice and quickly)

[rallycrosscraig]

KA is a good idea - if the sport ka 1.6 is an 8v, (all other Ka's were 1.3 8v's).

[BOY BLUNDER]

They say you can go anywhere in a NISSAN.

[Carlos]

I looked at a fabia a while back, decent power figures for a 1.4 16v and a bit differant, also considered puma but bodywork costs and weight put me off, colt was looked at but changed plans in the end.

[Carlos]

here where some initail ideas before taking weight into account.
Daihatsu Sirion 1.3 16v 102 bhp
Daihatsu Charade 1.3 16v 97 bhp
Fiesta 1.4 16v 90 bhp
Honda Civic 1.4i 90 bhp
MG ZR 1.4i 103 bhp
Renault Clio 1.4 16v 95 bhp
Rover Metro 103 bhp
Rover 214 1.4 16v 103 bhp
Seat Arosa 1.4 16v 100 bhp
Skoda Fabia 1.4 16v 100 bhp
Vauxhall Corsa 1.4 16v 90 bhp

[206180]

When you see that list you think with some sort of sensible weight penalty system how many different cars could be used. Im sure the amount of 205's in Stock Hatch puts people off of the classs.

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by 206180

When you see that list you think with some sort of sensible weight penalty system how many different cars could be used..

Anyone know what happened to suggestion that rallycross adopt the 750 MC's weight penalty system? Seemed sensible to me...

Its certainly important to get the entry level formula right in order to get people into the sport - maybe it needs to evolve a little? The idea of a 2 litre stock hatch class was mooted once, as was a 'Div 2a class' (Div 2 but without the expensive transmissions etc).

[rallycrosscraig]

maybe if we all had newer cars that cost more to replace panels there'd be less panel bashing?!

[silver bullet]

I think weight limits have been sugested for introduction in 2007, I hope that it's the 750 MC's system rather than the Irish one.

I would like to see a "Super Stock Hatch" class introduced for up 1800cc 16v, but with exactly the same rules as Stock Hatch.

[BertMk2]

I think properly enforced weight limits would be a better way forward than introducing another new class - there is already enough confusion at meetings with the MSA, BRDA and BTDRA championships a sub class of an existing class would just add to the mix (whatever happened to the 'modified' class? is that still going?).

[silver bullet]

The modified class has gone. I think they should have stuck with it a little longer, a few people were thinking of converting. Any new class needs more than a couple of years to get enough people build new cars or convert their old ones.
The trouble is the step up from stockhatch to supermodified too big for most drivers.
In my view the best class structure would be
Stockhatch up to 1500cc 16v
Super Stockhatch 1500 - 1800cc 16v
Supermodified
Supercar
With properly enforced weight limits that would open the stockhatches up to many new cars.

[BertMk2]

So where would the current crop of 1600 8v cars end up? In with the up to 1500 16v cars or against the 1800's? I guess they'd have to go in with the up to 1500's otherwise you'd render the majority of the field obselete overnight. Any new class definitely needs time to take hold and develop.

[silver bullet]

Thats the thing, we need to know now where the future lies. The current crop of cars need phasing out slowly. The sensible thing anybody building a new car now has to do, is look at the available engines for the model they are thinking of building. Then as the 8v's get phased out all they would need to do is change engine, ie Rover 200 swap the 1.4 16v for a 1.6 16v or the Saxo swap the 1.6 8v for a 1.6 16v

[leonidas]

Ok...

My take on this is that any new MSA class should have a (roughly) equivalent international class or be easily converted to it. The long term future for the headline MSA national championship has got to be:

Div1 (with perhaps 'invitational' entries for approved Group B stuff)
Div1a
Div 2 (assuming it carries on, which it probably will)
Div 2a 'entry level' (Div 2 but with tight restrictions on the expensive bits!)

Everything else should eventually be in the BTRDA where there is scope for subclasses and 'outlaw' regs to fit the cars that are currently running. As the BTRDA and MSA now run together moving to this sort of arrangement shouldn't be so difficult in the long term... and it would surely be much more simple?

[rallycrosscraig]

I think its good as it is - no point changing just to match their Euro regs.

Think of the money/time/effort people have got invested in their current cars, and then you think how little money there is around (in general) no one would want to change - it might kill it off.

[leonidas]

Craig - I'm not suggesting it should happen overnight but I think we should look to evolve in that direction over the next 5 years or so. How long is the competitive life of a new car? There will always be other national championships like BTRDA for people to race.

Look at it this way, if you're a ambitious Brit wanting to make your name on the international circuit what are your choices...?

(1) Stock hatch - dirt cheap but can't do overseas.
(2) Supermodified - massively more expensive and you can't do overseas.
(3) Div 2 - bit more affordable but can't race competitively in GB.

And then we wonder why there are no Brit regulars in the ERC?!