Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Indycar Series


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 13 Sep 2021, 01:59 (Ref:4073513)   #16
joeb
Race Official
Veteran
 
joeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
United States
Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 12,600
joeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadrun96 View Post
And now all the guys who were in the Turn1 fun and qualified well have shot to the front in the pit cycle with HELLA overcuts. Rahal went from catbird seat to falling through the field
This was such a strange race to me. After that first lap incident and all those cars getting cycled to the back, I thought the people in front would have controlled the race. But it turns out being cycled to the back and putting on lap nine was the strategy to have. So bizarre. It also didn't help that I turned away a few times to watch football and so as I was flipping back and forth I missed a lot of stuff in 10 lap stretches.
joeb is offline  
Quote
Old 13 Sep 2021, 03:20 (Ref:4073529)   #17
Teretonga
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,859
Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadrun96 View Post
And now all the guys who were in the Turn1 fun and qualified well have shot to the front in the pit cycle with HELLA overcuts. Rahal went from catbird seat to falling through the field
It seems that way but then reflect back. The guys there at the finish had gone through the chicane escape rather than crash into each other which would have caused a red flag.
Once sent back they pitted earl, about 8-9-10 when the field was still under yellow. Legal, but they had nothing to lose by it. That extended their run through the first stage and most of them pitted later than the cars pushed to the front when they were relegated.

They were generally faster than the cars/drivers who replaced them at the front but not significantly. But further yellows reduced fuel consumption and actually enabled them to run an alternative strategy that timed their fuels stops to the 80-85 lap area which gave them a straight run home.. the others had to stop around 75 laps but had to take on full fuel loads.
The drop back guys didn't require full reloads so could short-fill because they only needed enough to get home.
It takes longer to fill the tanks then to change a set of tires.

Running on full tanks towards the late end of the race was also a handicap....
And some made a bad choice re tires.
Entirely unpredictable but that's Indycar and why it tends to throw up interesting and unpredictable outcomes....
Teretonga is offline  
Quote
Old 13 Sep 2021, 04:00 (Ref:4073532)   #18
mstets
Racer
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 258
mstets should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Did I mention that the Ganassi cars looked strong? I hate the way this race played out, with those that avoided contact on the first lap and stayed on track losing out to those that had contact and/or took the escape route. I'd be in favor of a single file start at Portland.
mstets is offline  
Quote
Old 13 Sep 2021, 07:30 (Ref:4073548)   #19
Teretonga
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,859
Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstets View Post
Did I mention that the Ganassi cars looked strong? I hate the way this race played out, with those that avoided contact on the first lap and stayed on track losing out to those that had contact and/or took the escape route. I'd be in favor of a single file start at Portland.
Go and read Palou's comments regarding what actually happened to him. I wasn't watching the video play but he was very much the innocent party but was still penalized. It doesn't appear that anyone took responsibility for doing an analysis of what actually happened.
The most serious incidents were back in the pack.
If you take action but your action is non specific it doesn't do your cause or your movement a lot of good.
Teretonga is offline  
Quote
Old 13 Sep 2021, 13:05 (Ref:4073621)   #20
broadrun96
Veteran
 
broadrun96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
United States
Posts: 7,257
broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
There was NO chance at that speed either Ganassi guys was making the corner regardless of the cars behind, poor angle and far too late on the brakes. They didn't even start to turn at all and were ahead of the insanity.
broadrun96 is offline  
Quote
Old 13 Sep 2021, 13:31 (Ref:4073631)   #21
bjohnsonsmith
Race Official
20KPINAL
 
bjohnsonsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
United States
London, England
Posts: 20,661
bjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Race result:

Unfortunately I missed the race, so it will be highlights on YouTube as soon as they are available.

From reading the posts there was first corner chaos, like in 2018.

Palou's win puts him back in the lead by 25 points over O'Ward, with two races left. Exciting times.
Attached Thumbnails
indycar-boxscore copy.jpg  
bjohnsonsmith is offline  
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying."
Colin Chapman.
Quote
Old 14 Sep 2021, 03:08 (Ref:4073759)   #22
mstets
Racer
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 258
mstets should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teretonga View Post
Go and read Palou's comments regarding what actually happened to him. I wasn't watching the video play but he was very much the innocent party but was still penalized. It doesn't appear that anyone took responsibility for doing an analysis of what actually happened.
The most serious incidents were back in the pack.
If you take action but your action is non specific it doesn't do your cause or your movement a lot of good.

I wasn't able to record the race and would need to see a replay, but it looked to me like Rosenqvist caused the turn 1 mess. Hard to say if Dixon and Palou would have made it through the corner otherwise, but Felix was not penalized and ended up sixth - ultimately benefiting from the turn 1 contact.

Wonder how AMSP feels about the issue. O'Ward was arguably the biggest loser from the turn 1 incident.

Last edited by mstets; 14 Sep 2021 at 03:22.
mstets is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Sep 2021, 03:14 (Ref:4073760)   #23
mstets
Racer
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 258
mstets should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadrun96 View Post
There was NO chance at that speed either Ganassi guys was making the corner regardless of the cars behind, poor angle and far too late on the brakes. They didn't even start to turn at all and were ahead of the insanity.

That was the way it looked to me. One of them might have made the turn but it's hard to picture both making it through.
mstets is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Sep 2021, 03:25 (Ref:4073761)   #24
Teretonga
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,859
Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstets View Post
I wasn't able to record the race and would need to see a replay, but it looked to me like Rosenqvist caused the turn 1 mess. Hard to say if Dixon and Palou would have made it through the corner otherwise, but Felix was not penalized and ended up sixth - ultimately benefiting from the turn 1 contact.
Apparently that is what happened.
Rosenquist braked late, hit Dixon lightly as he turned in, but that pushed him into Palou and both of them went wide failing to remain on the racing surface.
But they resumed further back in about 6 and 7. Rosenquist didn't even make the corner but just went straight ahead through the obstacles and back onto the circuit. missed T1 and 2 completely.

Dixon, Rossi, Palou etc penalized because they did not take the chicane properly.
It didn't make sense which was why Palou was confused (completely innocent party) and you can understand why.
Although it seems they weren't penalized they were. Its just that the penalties applied played out in helping them as the events in the race played out.
The penalties apply to the actions and are taken immediately for that incident. The final result plays out to what it is.
It wouldn't be reasonable to penalize them at the beginning for a racing infraction and insist that it determines the event result.

But there was also action further back with Grosjean hitting Hinchcliffe up and some people and Askew going sideways in the pack.

Last edited by Teretonga; 14 Sep 2021 at 03:32.
Teretonga is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Sep 2021, 10:19 (Ref:4073786)   #25
Bcarr6
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,539
Bcarr6 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridBcarr6 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The solution to the Portland 1st corner mess is to build a tire wall across that whole run-off. Sure, innocent parties could lose out sometimes, with guys pushing them off, but thats the same as any normal 1st corner.

You often see similar issues at Monza, things always run the chance of getting confused when you have such easily accessible run offs on turn one.

Sure you might increase the risk of T1 incidents, but you entirely cut the risk of he jumbled mess we saw this weekend
Bcarr6 is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Sep 2021, 10:50 (Ref:4073789)   #26
bjohnsonsmith
Race Official
20KPINAL
 
bjohnsonsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
United States
London, England
Posts: 20,661
bjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstets View Post
I wasn't able to record the race and would need to see a replay, but it looked to me like Rosenqvist caused the turn 1 mess. Hard to say if Dixon and Palou would have made it through the corner otherwise, but Felix was not penalized and ended up sixth - ultimately benefiting from the turn 1 contact.

Wonder how AMSP feels about the issue. O'Ward was arguably the biggest loser from the turn 1 incident.

Here are the extended race highlights and they include an aerial shot of the Turn 1 incident.


https://youtu.be/pfPiYbPvreE
bjohnsonsmith is offline  
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying."
Colin Chapman.
Quote
Old 16 Sep 2021, 02:06 (Ref:4074159)   #27
mstets
Racer
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 258
mstets should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith View Post
Here are the extended race highlights and they include an aerial shot of the Turn 1 incident.


https://youtu.be/pfPiYbPvreE

Really poor video quality but it still looked to me like Felix caused the initial contact.



Could the race be started at another point where contact is less likely? I'd be in favor of anything that prevents the T1 mess that seems typical at Portland. Start the cars in single file in 5 second intervals, whatever it takes.
mstets is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Sep 2021, 10:18 (Ref:4074190)   #28
bjohnsonsmith
Race Official
20KPINAL
 
bjohnsonsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
United States
London, England
Posts: 20,661
bjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstets View Post
Really poor video quality but it still looked to me like Felix caused the initial contact.
It looked fine, it wasn't pixelated or anything like that.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mstets View Post
Could the race be started at another point where contact is less likely? I'd be in favor of anything that prevents the T1 mess that seems typical at Portland. Start the cars in single file in 5 second intervals, whatever it takes.

I think they should reduce the angle of Turn 1. There was a pile up at the start of the race in 2018 and a similar incident 2019.
bjohnsonsmith is offline  
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying."
Colin Chapman.
Quote
Old 16 Sep 2021, 23:55 (Ref:4074287)   #29
Teretonga
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,859
Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith View Post
It looked fine, it wasn't pixelated or anything like that.






I think they should reduce the angle of Turn 1. There was a pile up at the start of the race in 2018 and a similar incident 2019.
Back in the cart days there were problems as soon as they put it in. So start on the back straight? The only other place.
Or this. Start after the chicane. ON the entry to the sweeping curve at the end of the straight. It will spread the field out but is that such a bad thing?
Teretonga is offline  
Quote
Old Yesterday, 11:47 (Ref:4074342)   #30
bjohnsonsmith
Race Official
20KPINAL
 
bjohnsonsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
United States
London, England
Posts: 20,661
bjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teretonga View Post
Back in the cart days there were problems as soon as they put it in. So start on the back straight? The only other place.
Or this. Start after the chicane. ON the entry to the sweeping curve at the end of the straight. It will spread the field out but is that such a bad thing?

They need to do something about it. If they want to keep the chicane as is, then why not start from the back straight. Otherwise, make the angle less severe.
bjohnsonsmith is offline  
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying."
Colin Chapman.
Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Round 16: Grand Prix of Portland, Portland International Raceway. Aug 29-Sept 1. bjohnsonsmith Indycar Series 22 3 Sep 2019 15:50
Round 16: Grand Prix of Portland, Portland International Raceway. Aug 30-Sept 1 bjohnsonsmith Indycar Series 33 4 Sep 2018 11:40
2018 Pirelli World Challenge Rounds 14 & 15: Portland International Raceway Mechanic Z North American Racing 24 16 Jul 2018 01:55
Round 2: Diamond Desert Valley Casino, Phoenix Grand Prix. ISM Raceway, 6-7 April bjohnsonsmith Indycar Series 44 8 Apr 2018 14:54
Round 2:Desert Diamond West Valley, Phoenix Grand Prix. Phoenix International Raceway bjohnsonsmith Indycar Series 97 10 Apr 2016 15:05


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.