Bell's Banter 2022

[Peter Mallett]

I'm not looking for conspiracies, since as I said it's a major risk in international contracting which is my businesse. What I'm questioning is the numbers. It doesn't make sense, you can leach resources over a period of time but this happened in less than a year. Agreed, many people just stopped but that doesn't answer the question. Gerard you are right the raw materials are not being produced in the required quantities and Mike, you kind of repeat my point that the shipping is all in the wrong place.

[grantp]

It occurs to me that were I a young person and in any way considering the potential for the trucking life one of the things that would put me off would be the though of having to drive a naffing great artic into towns and cities that are actively anti any mode of transport except bicycles, pedestrians and trams plus a dash of buses.

The recent changes in the hierarchy of road user responsibility, putting the least responsible at the head of the pyramid, sets a precedent for the future that people should consider. Especially if their "Employer" runs an owner-driver based business model.

One of my sons-in-law runs a bakery supplying some of the larger supermarkets. On a few months time their energy costs will go through the roof as forward contracts expire. Meantime their workers are defecting to Amazon to work in warehouses overnight pushing out packages of poor Quality products for more money than the food supply chain can afford to pay in the long term.

Or rather, for more money than the masses in the UK can afford to support - even if they have all gone to work at an Amazon warehouse.

[midgetman]

You've hit the nail on the head there Grant. For all the TV exposés, there's reasonable pay, regular hours and you get to sleep in your own bed at night. Can't knock it.

Plus if you have a desire to earn your living through driving, van delivery companies are growing exponentially without the need for medicals, tests, Driver CPC and all the red tape. And if your van happens to be white you can drive like an absolute **** and park where you like

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

[terence]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

From what I've heard about the working life of an HGV driver (certainly here in the UK), I'm amazed that anyone does it.
As others have said above, the bosses expect their drivers to break the rules on working hours (but of course, if caught it would 'be the drivers fault, he chose to work the extra hours...'). The long distance drivers apparently struggle to find adequate overnight rest facilities where they can park safely, get a proper meal and use decent, clean toilets and washing facilities before going back to sleep in their (admittedly, mostly quite plush and well equipped) cabs. From what our local volunteer litter pickers say about the huge quantity of bags & bottles of human waste they collect on a regular basis I find quite stomach churning! Plus by all accounts, the washing & toilet facilities available for female drivers are woefully inadequate. Then added to this there are the unsociable hours they have to work whilst being away from families for unspecified amounts of time, all for a pitiful (by comparison) wage.
I am sure (or at least I hope) that not all haulage contractors can be 'tarred with this same brush', but I bet that they're a minority.

Unsocial hours? Like 32hrs no break=17,000€ fine.
Happened just last week over here. Guess what, it was the drivers fault, company denied all knowledge.

[Gerard C]

No need to look for a conspiracy, just back or stick to the good old laws of supply and demand. After some drops in business to keep the total sales amount at the previous level or even higher to what they used to be, some companies offer less than the demand. Simple and efficient. Customers, truckers and other people are taken hostage.



What terence and Viva report is seen here on the highways with crazy situations, drivers stopping their truck anywhere when its time too ragarding the tacho. No matter the safety. Sadly its not new and really dangerous at night.

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I'm not looking for conspiracies, since as I said it's a major risk in international contracting which is my businesse. What I'm questioning is the numbers. It doesn't make sense, you can leach resources over a period of time but this happened in less than a year. Agreed, many people just stopped but that doesn't answer the question. Gerard you are right the raw materials are not being produced in the required quantities and Mike, you kind of repeat my point that the shipping is all in the wrong place.

Peter , the lockdown started nearly 2 years ago .
Talking to my daughter , who works in logistics for a large International transport / distribution company , there was an ongoing shortage of drivers even before then .
But the lockdown made it worse , with many drivers who were still going past retirement age , deciding to give up then . And a lot of trucks / drivers / containers having stopped in the wrong places , then put all of the schedules off balance .
Another thing was the EVERGREEN , which got stuck in Suez .
About 24,000 containers , [ plus the other ships which were effected ], getting to places at the wrong time which threw all of the planning into chaos .

So it seems to be a whole lot of factors which have caused the transport industry to get behind , and it will probably take years to catch up again , even if there was a large increase in driver numbers .

[Peter Mallett]

Yeah, I mentioned the Evergreen, that massively impacted shipping. But I guess the effects of the pandemic has hit the industry harder than we would expect.

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by Tel 911S

Peter , the lockdown started nearly 2 years ago .
Talking to my daughter , who works in logistics for a large International transport / distribution company , there was an ongoing shortage of drivers even before then .
But the lockdown made it worse , with many drivers who were still going past retirement age , deciding to give up then . And a lot of trucks / drivers / containers having stopped in the wrong places , then put all of the schedules off balance .
Another thing was the EVERGREEN , which got stuck in Suez .
About 24,000 containers , [ plus the other ships which were effected ], getting to places at the wrong time which threw all of the planning into chaos .

So it seems to be a whole lot of factors which have caused the transport industry to get behind , and it will probably take years to catch up again , even if there was a large increase in driver numbers .

Slip up on ship name . Should be EVERGIVEN , from the Evergreen line .

[Peter Mallett]

Indeed.

[Mike Harte]

Why is that politicians never seem to think about what they are going to say before they open their mouths, because they seem to fail to understand how stupid their comment are.

Typical example in the last few days are the PM and brown-nosing MPs trying to justify the slur cast by Johnson when he pretty well said that Strarmer was responsible for not prosecuting Savile when he was DPP.

It transpired that Starmer actually played no part in the decision not to prosecute - there is no evidence that he was even aware of the enquiries that were being made by either the police or the CPS - but as DPP he later apologised that the CPS had not taken any action.

The PM then back-tracked and said that although Starmer hadn't had any direct connection to there not being any prosecution, the fact that he apologised on behalf of the CPS meant that he was actually responsible. And this is being repeated by some ministers and MPs.

Taken to it's logical conclusion, does this mean that these morons also believer that Cameron was responsible for Bloody Sunday and the tragedy at Hillsborough, for both of which he gave public apologies for?

I mean he was all of 6 years of age when Bloody Sunday happened and about 23 when Hillsborough happened. And to the best of my knowledge, he wasn't either a politician or had any involvement in football matters then.

And there are plenty of other times that politicians have apologised for matters that they had no connection to.

[Gerard C]

At the moment, our politicians are embarassed by a book, in fact a kind of free audit made by a young journalist, about the situation in the retirement houses held by a large French group, Orpea. Fact is our gov is financially involved but nothing has been done to seriously monitor the use of funds so far. What will happen then? As on usual, one scandal pushes another its how it works in any banana republic. https://www.rfi.fr/en/france/2022013...-nursing-homes
More than a pure shame, its disgusting.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Why is that politicians never seem to think about what they are going to say before they open their mouths, because they seem to fail to understand how stupid their comment are.

Typical example in the last few days are the PM and brown-nosing MPs trying to justify the slur cast by Johnson when he pretty well said that Strarmer was responsible for not prosecuting Savile when he was DPP.

It transpired that Starmer actually played no part in the decision not to prosecute - there is no evidence that he was even aware of the enquiries that were being made by either the police or the CPS - but as DPP he later apologised that the CPS had not taken any action.

The PM then back-tracked and said that although Starmer hadn't had any direct connection to there not being any prosecution, the fact that he apologised on behalf of the CPS meant that he was actually responsible. And this is being repeated by some ministers and MPs.

Taken to it's logical conclusion, does this mean that these morons also believer that Cameron was responsible for Bloody Sunday and the tragedy at Hillsborough, for both of which he gave public apologies for?

I mean he was all of 6 years of age when Bloody Sunday happened and about 23 when Hillsborough happened. And to the best of my knowledge, he wasn't either a politician or had any involvement in football matters then.

And there are plenty of other times that politicians have apologised for matters that they had no connection to.

Warning, what follows is a rant and does not necessarily represent the opinions of Ten-Tenths. (To be honest, it probably doesn't even represent the opinions of the poster when they aren't ranting.) Indeed and of course Starmer stated that no previous PM had been investigated by the police, possibly conveniently forgetting that Tony Blair was under caution when he was investigated for the gongs for cash thing. Notwithstanding any idea of remoteness, Starmer was DPP and therefore had a vicarious responsibility for Savile which is why he apologised the time. Boris is not without fault in all of this but let's keep some balance. Frankly I could care less about parties, I'm more concerned with this daft net zero stuff. And I speak as someone who attended a very close relative's funeral on Apr 22 2020. There were just two of us and the vicar. The people complaining are those that voted for the rules. And as with Starmer, many broke them. We now return you to our normal ramblings.

[Mike Harte]

Peter, I believe that although Blair sat down with the police two or three times, once at the end of 2006 and then again in early 2007, on no occasion was he placed under caution. So Johnson may well become the first serving PM to be interviewed under caution if the police are going to take action after they have finished their investigation.

I believe that Blair refused to be placed under caution by threatening to resign (which he did anyway a few months later), so police backed down.

[Peter Mallett]

The point is moot. Just because you don't like the current pm don't fall into the trap of following a seemingly popular position. We get to vote people in or out. That's the democratic way. Allowing death by media is the way to the bottom.

[Mike Harte]

Peter, you are correct that I do dislike Johnson intensely, and have long felt that he was unfit to be an MP let alone the Prime Minister. And it's nothing to do with the fact that he is a member of the Conservative Party, as I have actually voted for them since I turned 18, all except for the last General Election when I deliberately spoilt my ballot paper.

My dislike stems from the 1990s whilst he was just a journalist, and he apparently conspired with his chum from Oxford University, Darrius Guppy, to have another journo given a couple of black eyes because Guppy didn't like what that journo was writing about him. As the phone conversation about the plot made between them was recorded, and became publicly known, I have never understood why they weren't prosecuted, although Guppy was jailed for fraud (unconnected, although that might have been what he didn't like written about him) at around that time.

And as as Starmer has said about Johnson, he lives in a moral vacuum; I would have just said that he lacks any moral compass. His marriage record would appear to attest to that fact.

And as I wrote on a previous occasion, having watched his actions whilst a fly on the wall documentary was made during his time as Foreign Secretary just confirmed my opinions that he wasn't fit for office.

Rant over!

[Peter Mallett]

I'd like to respnd but I think I'll leave it here.

[midgetman]

I have a reply in draft explaining why I agree with Mike. It may be used some time, but "Banter" isn't the right place. This is a motor sport forum.

In the meantime, here's a photograph of a kitten. She's called Lottie, a diminutive of LOTUS because she's, well, you know the acronym.

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

[grantp]

Just to nip back to the Ever Given observations a few comments back, I'm not entirely convinced that the knock on effects (other than for perishable goods) were as huge as they were suggested at the time.

I have some stuff in a container on another Evergreen ship that I am tracking (simply because I can and it is proving sort of interesting as a way of understanding something about Maritime commerce.)

Ever Given was stuck for a few days and then detained for some months before heading for repairs. My reading of the aftermath reports suggests that the backlog of vessles transiting the Suez canal was cleared in about a week or 10 days. That would be logical if a number of shipd had diverted around the Cape and avoided the canal.

The total tonnage delayed would have been greater than just the canal cargo in terms of shipping delays but only for a relatively short period in the overall scheme of things. (Assuming the information about the effects was correct.)
trade with the Americas would have been more or less unaffected.

Boats from Chinese/Taiwanese ports seem to have potential stops in Malaysia/Singapore and then nothing until Rotterdam. "My" boat, for example, left Malaysia/Singapore, passed through the Suez on schedule a day ago with the next stop at Rotterdam. Then Felixstowe and Hamburg after which it heads back to China without stopping anywhere en route.

From what I can see of the advanced schedules published last year it and its sister ships are rarely deviating from their schedules set months in advance. There is at least one giant container ship from Evergreen following the same route every week. They are not the only shippers running much the same pattern.

Since almost all of the goods being shipped are heading from the far east to the west it is hardly surprising that containers are often a one-way proposition.

If no one feels a need to cover the cost of all the returns the best option would be to come up with a plan whereby the containers become a "good" not just a packaging device.

I do wonder whether a container ship loaded with empty containers (so all of the wind effect but less weight and draught) might be a less than safe sailing proposition) but I'll leave that for any merchant mariners to answer.

Back when I were a lad we used to joke sardonically about the number of low cost items that were labelled "Made in Hong Kong". Now we seems to have very little manufacturing in Europe by comparison, though a number of "assembly" businesses stand-in for the concept in the public consciousness.

We seem to be totally reliant on imported components - whether or not the "clever" and quality stuff is in fact made here.

The same with food, yet the plans are to convert more and more useful farming land to sub-standard housing and industrial purposes - often "Distribution Centres" taking in the stuff that comes from the Far East in one-way containers.

Madness (in my opinion).

[grantp]

On a slightly different tack ...

I saw reports that there are plans to convert a large area of farmland south of East Midlands Airport into a "new town" of almost 5000 properties and businesses and all that would be required to support it.

Basically it seems be the entire area that was, a few years ago, being mooted as a place to greatly expand EMA.

At its Western end it would border Donington Park.

All part of Leicesteshire's plan to entirely industialise itself I suppose.

Derbyshire is approaching from the West at the same same time. I wonder if Dr. Palmer will have time to develop his grand plan in times to see any returns on the investment before the complaints start?

[Gerard C]

Any one enjoyed the stunts seen in the last James Bond movie, No time to die? They are for real, not computerized. What can be done by a real pro, Mark Higgins, even using an M3 in Aston guise, is fantastic. And what to say about Paul Edmondson, stunter and rider (former enduro bike champion) apart breathtaking?

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Any one enjoyed the stunts seen in the last James Bond movie, No time to die? They are for real, not computerized. What can be done by a real pro, Mark Higgins, even using an M3 in Aston guise, is fantastic. And what to say about Paul Edmondson, stunter and rider (former enduro bike champion) apart breathtaking?

Yes the stunts were very good but all a bit samey now. And I was disappointed in the film, I think someone forgot to actually include a plot!

[Gerard C]

Agreed, Andy, after the stunts they lost me! And I'm not the greatest fan of Léa Seydoux. They used ten Astons as said here: https://www.autoweek.com/car-life/cl...-die-are-real/
What a budget they have!

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by grantp

Just to nip back to the Ever Given observations a few comments back, I'm not entirely convinced that the knock on effects (other than for perishable goods) were as huge as they were suggested at the time.

I have some stuff in a container on another Evergreen ship that I am tracking (simply because I can and it is proving sort of interesting as a way of understanding something about Maritime commerce.)

Ever Given was stuck for a few days and then detained for some months before heading for repairs. My reading of the aftermath reports suggests that the backlog of vessles transiting the Suez canal was cleared in about a week or 10 days. That would be logical if a number of shipd had diverted around the Cape and avoided the canal.

The total tonnage delayed would have been greater than just the canal cargo in terms of shipping delays but only for a relatively short period in the overall scheme of things. (Assuming the information about the effects was correct.)
trade with the Americas would have been more or less unaffected.

Boats from Chinese/Taiwanese ports seem to have potential stops in Malaysia/Singapore and then nothing until Rotterdam. "My" boat, for example, left Malaysia/Singapore, passed through the Suez on schedule a day ago with the next stop at Rotterdam. Then Felixstowe and Hamburg after which it heads back to China without stopping anywhere en route.

From what I can see of the advanced schedules published last year it and its sister ships are rarely deviating from their schedules set months in advance. There is at least one giant container ship from Evergreen following the same route every week. They are not the only shippers running much the same pattern.

Since almost all of the goods being shipped are heading from the far east to the west it is hardly surprising that containers are often a one-way proposition.

If no one feels a need to cover the cost of all the returns the best option would be to come up with a plan whereby the containers become a "good" not just a packaging device.

I do wonder whether a container ship loaded with empty containers (so all of the wind effect but less weight and draught) might be a less than safe sailing proposition) but I'll leave that for any merchant mariners to answer.

Back when I were a lad we used to joke sardonically about the number of low cost items that were labelled "Made in Hong Kong". Now we seems to have very little manufacturing in Europe by comparison, though a number of "assembly" businesses stand-in for the concept in the public consciousness.

We seem to be totally reliant on imported components - whether or not the "clever" and quality stuff is in fact made here.

The same with food, yet the plans are to convert more and more useful farming land to sub-standard housing and industrial purposes - often "Distribution Centres" taking in the stuff that comes from the Far East in one-way containers.

Madness (in my opinion).

Yes , it is not easy to understand how a holdup can effect a distribution system .

But just that 1 ship , the EVERGIVEN , holds about 24,000 containers . And even if just a quarter of them are unloaded at 1 port , that would need 6,000 trucks to distribute them . Which is why most of the transport planning is done a long time in advance , and a delay can throw the whole system into chaos .

[crmalcolm]

There are a few sources that cover this - but one factor to remember when considering the impact of the Ever Given on supply chains is the location of containers not ships.

The shipping delays from the Ever Given placed about 30,000,000 containers in the wrong place in the supply chain.

[bauble]

I sense that some here are not fans of Boris! No surprise when you realise that it is his urging of Ukraine to invade Russia that has caused Mr Putin to mass his tanks on his border. The reason Boris is doing this is to draw attention away form his blunder in not invading China to remove the Covid threat before it began, and his failure to stop climate change is the reason that we have seen disastrous floods, fires, and famines around the globe. All of this could have been avoided if he had not spent so much time choosing wallpaper, and a wife, while his nightly riotous parties at Number 10 do not help. We won't mention his refusal to spend several billions on developing English cricket, and the humiliating defeat of the National Team in Australia, with the consequent upsurge in racial discrimination it caused. And don't start me on Rugby ....!

Rant complete.