Who's game is it anyway?

[jab]

There's one tiny flaw - the NFL isn't a motor racing series

Team-run motor racing series ALWAYS fail

[chris bailey]

I like the NFL idea. Salary caps. The draft (Lewis would have gone to Force India). Stopping every 3 minutes for an ad break. Something to celebrate after every play. Everyone on the team has the same colour helmets. The list goes on........... Oh, and all the teams channel vast amounts of money into grass roots motorsport to nurture future talent.

Now, I can't quite put my finger on it, but there's a flaw in there somewhere.....

p.s. Go and watch some late 70's F1 footage, and tell me if I'm just being nostalgic.

[csirl]

Dont scoff the idea. It makes a lot more sense than having a secretive company or an out of touch rich pensioner running the show.

What has F1 management done for the sport lately? Look at their track record:

1. 2010 - most boring season ever in spite of rule changes.
2. Different teams getting different payments.
3. Some teams having vetos.
4. Moving races out of places where there is fan support and putting them in places where nobody cares and with TV coverage at an inconvenient time for most fans.
5. Number of teams/cars is dropping.
6. Sport is getting very insular.
7. Ruining great circuits.
8. Running a closed shop instead of letting anyone enter a car.
9. Medals system
10. Winner of most races wins championship.
11. Stupid ugly looking cars.
12. Drivers who pay to drive rather than being there on talent.

the list goes on. One thing you can say about F1 management is that they dont care about the fans.

[jab]

Originally Posted by csirl

1. 2010 - most boring season ever in spite of rule changes.

Most boring season ever? Nonsense

If you look down the field, if Brawn hadn't made it we'd have perhaps the closest season since 1982 on our hands

2. Different teams getting different payments.
3. Some teams having vetos.

And if they hadn't, they'd have gone and formed a breakaway 4 years ago anyway

4. Moving races out of places where there is fan support and putting them in places where nobody cares and with TV coverage at an inconvenient time for most fans.

These places are paying a lot more money for their races with far better facilities, so the alternative is no races at all

5. Number of teams/cars is dropping.

We have the same number of cars as we did at the end of 1996

6. Sport is getting very insular.

Blame the manufacturers. They've driven the costs up

7. Ruining great circuits.

The alternative is crippled or dead drivers

8. Running a closed shop instead of letting anyone enter a car.

It's not a closed shop. Teams are allowed to enter if they want. They just can't afford it because, again, the manufacturers have driven costs up

9. Medals system
10. Winner of most races wins championship.

That never happened. The championship's still decided by points

11. Stupid ugly looking cars.

Personal opinion. And they were designed that way to make overtaking easier, so the alternative is minimal overtaking with last year's cars, which, in my opinion, were a lot uglier than the ones we have now

12. Drivers who pay to drive rather than being there on talent.

Who? 19 of the 20 drivers on the grid are in there on talent, which is a far higher percentage than 10 years ago

One thing you can say about F1 management is that they dont care about the fans.

Neither do the manufacturers. They just want to make money. We're just pawns to them

[csirl]

Most boring season ever? Nonsense

If you look down the field, if Brawn hadn't made it we'd have perhaps the closest season since 1982 on our hands

Ifs and buts..........the fact is that Brawn are there.

These places are paying a lot more money for their races with far better facilities, so the alternative is no races at all

Are you suggesting that short term profiteering at the expense of the sports fan base is better than looking after the fan base? I think you're proving my point.

We have the same number of cars as we did at the end of 1996

Before Bernie & Max we had nearly 40 cars for many races.

Blame the manufacturers. They've driven the costs up

No so, the manufacturers are being forced out in favour of the old boy network. The core of F1 used to be sports car manufacturers from all over Europe - UK, Italy, Germany, France etc. Ferrari, Lotus, Renault, Mercedes, AUDI (autounion), Alfa Romeo, etc. etc.

The alternative is crippled or dead drivers

Dont agree - alternative is to make the cars safer, not neutering the circuits.

That never happened. The championship's still decided by points

Not in 2010.

Neither do the manufacturers. They just want to make money. We're just pawns to them

Manufacturers cant make money unless F1 is competitive and attractive to the fans.

[nycuk]

Originally Posted by csirl

1. 2010 - most boring season ever in spite of rule changes.

Where did you park your DeLorean?

[steve nielsen]

So F1 would be a low budget series with all teams running the same engine: sounds like A1 GP to me.

[Flat12-Aircool]

Any breakaway series would still be ok for the teams as they could secure say 75% of the TV revenues instead of just the 50% they get now from uncle Bernie. The remaining 25% can go into building up the championship instead of paying off the loans of CVC.

[jab]

Originally Posted by csirl

Ifs and buts..........the fact is that Brawn are there.

And even so, it's not the most boring year ever. Go and read about some other years - 2002, 2004, 1952-53

Are you suggesting that short term profiteering at the expense of the sports fan base is better than looking after the fan base? I think you're proving my point.

No, but the fact is the old track are off the calendar for a reason, and just because the teams might go back to some of them with their new series doesn't mean they will. For all you know, within a couple of years of that series, we'll end up back in Sakhir and Shanghai again

Before Bernie & Max we had nearly 40 cars for many races.

And do you know why we don't have them anymore? Because it wasn't economical to run a team that wasn't racing. It's called survival of the fittest. A team like Life was never going to make it unless they built a car that was capable of racing, because who's going to sponsor a team that isn't racing?

Pre-quali might sound nice now but it makes no commercial sense whatsoever

No so, the manufacturers are being forced out in favour of the old boy network. The core of F1 used to be sports car manufacturers from all over Europe - UK, Italy, Germany, France etc. Ferrari, Lotus, Renault, Mercedes, AUDI (autounion), Alfa Romeo, etc. etc.

What?

Look at budgets from the last 15 years and you will see that since manufacturers have started to come back in with their own teams, budgets have skyrocketed

Dont agree - alternative is to make the cars safer, not neutering the circuits.

You can't do one and not the other. It doesn't work like that. Tarmac run-off is a necessary evil and so are chicanes

Not in 2010.

Wrong. The FIA have removed it. Go look at the rules

Manufacturers cant make money unless F1 is competitive and attractive to the fans.

How much money manufacturers make overall and whether F1 is competitive and attractive are unrelated. Whether or not manufacturers keep pouring money in to their F1 teams usually has a lot to do with how competitive they are, not how attractive the sport is. Or, like Honda, they'll pull out in a PR move to make it look like they're cutting their losses

[littleman]

Anything that reduces the power and influence of Ecclestone is a good thing in my book. I detest the man.

Has he mentioned a cap on what he can charge for a GP? Has he worked tirelessly to ensure we have a British GP (his home event)? No, he's just a greedy little man driven by self interest.

[ChrisPage]

I still have my doubts that McLaren (and others) would want to join a series that would so obviously be The Ferrari GP Championship.

This has gone too far - I honestly belive that two months ago a solution was possible - a higher cap for 2010, progressivly lower and the teams support new entrants (none of which are 'GP3' standard as Ferrari put it).

But all the side have now dug in their heals and won't compromise one wheel cap. Sad, sad, sad.

A breakaway series can only have the effect of destroying both F1 and the new series. What happens in 2011 when Renault and BMW pull out? Some of these teams clearly want to leave, but they are almost staying put just to prove a point now.

Lets get beyond our own personal views on the protagonists. I can't stand Max, and think Bernie is determined to drive the sport to destruction in 10 years time for some quick oil bucks now. B-U-T:

All the protagonists involved here have points where they are right and points where they are wrong. Max, Bernie, FOTA. All arguments have strengths and weaknesses. I fear two rival series will simply highlight the weaknesses on both sides rather than a stronger F1 where the positives of both can be allowed.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

[ChrisPage]

Originally Posted by littleman

No, he's just a greedy little man driven by self interest.

Yes, he is. But so are the teams. So is Max. They all should be lead out back and shot.

[Peralta]

What a mess. I hope common sense prevails here. One question weren't the manufactures themselves (Briatore for one) complaining of over spending in F1. I remember last year half the grid was worried about excessive cost. What happened? All of the sudden the economy turned around.

[Bononi]

I've to say that I am totally surprised with all that is happening ! That's utterly preposterous !

[OZ_HCR32]

Good stuff, Williams to win the 2010 WCC!

This is sad and likely to take away from one of the best GPs of the year