Rosberg vs Hamilton

[Aysedasi]

He lost it?

Damn, must keep up with the news........

[F1Pete]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

I see it as a sign of respect, instead of a sly dig at your favorite driver.
Constantly feeling the need to tout the supposed superiority of your particular favorite is pretty pathetic, to be honest.


Everyone knows Jacques Villeneuve is still the best ever.



See how sad that is?

JV is one of the best ever no doubt. Indy car champ, Indy 500 winner, F1 rookie of the year and then F1 champion. If he would have driven for McLaren West Mercedes instead of BAR he could have had continued his string of championships. Look what has happened to Alonso...career limiting moves.

[F1Pete]

Originally Posted by wnut

Where Hamilton lost the title:

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/3...ost-the-title/

A driver doesn't take the championship all alone. There are 1200 people who work to put the driver where they are. If the car breaks down, that is part of the game. At least the reliability is much better than the old days. Reliability has always been a part of an F1 championship. Why is it any different this season???


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[S griffin]

Originally Posted by F1Pete

A driver doesn't take the championship all alone. There are 1200 people who work to put the driver where they are. If the car breaks down, that is part of the game. At least the reliability is much better than the old days. Reliability has always been a part of an F1 championship. Why is it any different this season???


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+1
Nico had reliability problems in 2014 and 2015

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by wnut

Where Hamilton lost the title:

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/3...ost-the-title/

I don't care for these retrospective articles. There are too many variables and you could spend an inordinate amount of time, picking them to pieces and get absolutely nowhere.

[F1Pete]

Was the team switch in mechanics a factor? Did the switch put Nico in a level playing field with LH being backed by championship mechanics?


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[Oldtony]

Originally Posted by F1Pete

A driver doesn't take the championship all alone. There are 1200 people who work to put the driver where they are. If the car breaks down, that is part of the game. At least the reliability is much better than the old days. Reliability has always been a part of an F1 championship. Why is it any different this season???

Which brings you back to the fact that, judging by their own words, Nico is a team player and Lewis is more about individual achievement.

The F1 championship was introduced as a DRIVERS championship but in a very short time it became obvious that if the cahampionship was to grow it had to become a TEAM championship. That lead to the introduction of the Constructors championship and, in spite of press and fan pressures, that is really the only practical way to operate.
The only way we could go to a dedicated DRIVERS championship wouild be in a tightly controlled spec series with limitations on budget and other input.
Who would bother to watch that.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

The only way we could go to a dedicated DRIVERS championship wouild be in a tightly controlled spec series with limitations on budget and other input.
Who would bother to watch that.

Sounds dreadful at first blush doesn't it, a spec series where driver talent would hold sway........ Hmmmm......

[JohnSSC]

Originally Posted by F1Pete

Was the team switch in mechanics a factor? Did the switch put Nico in a level playing field with LH being backed by championship mechanics?


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Would a switch of what has been reported as a grand total of three mechanics make that much difference?

MB won the Constructor's how many years in a row now? Doesn't that make all of the mechanics/team personnel "championship" caliber?

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Would a switch of what has been reported as a grand total of three mechanics make that much difference?

Probably not. But just a thought - Rosberg traditionally has had more reliability problems, as discussed here. This year it was Lewis, after the switch.

[bella]

bit silly to throw that kind of suggestion around unless you can back it up - were the mechanics who swapped sides anything to do with the power units? or were they responsible for maintaining completely unconnected parts of the car...

[gert]

I don't think the mechanics merry-go-round has anything to do with the car failures.

Those guys are all working for Mercedes, and are probably amongst the best.
If Mercedes didn't think they were fit for the job, they wouldn't be there: not on Lewis' car, not on Nico's car.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by bella

bit silly to throw that kind of suggestion around unless you can back it up - were the mechanics who swapped sides anything to do with the power units? or were they responsible for maintaining completely unconnected parts of the car...

Well remember it was actually Lewis who was suggesting there was a lot more to it than a simple swap. He said he was going to let us know why and then turned round and said we'll have to buy his book. But according to Lewis, there is more than just a swap to keep things fresh going on here. And it included the lead mechanic on both cars didn't it? Not saying it is why the switch happened, but Lewis wasn't happy with it, Rosberg was and there's more info we don't have.

[bella]

if there were people who could be held directly responsible for failures they wouldn't be employed come season end, let alone switched onto the world champions car...

i'll give lewis a lot more credit than he deserves much of the time but his view of the team is infuriating.

[Mike Harte]

Both Toto Wolff and paddy Lowe said that he was talking absolute spherical objects, and Toto also joked that it would be in his book when he writes it. It ranks alongside his blown engine conspiracy theory, and his question about whatever it was upsetting him at the time, 'Is it because I am black?'

He is just an annoying drama queen, who happens to be able to drive a car quickly when his head is in the right place and he feels like it. Mostly excludes testing when he has a nasty habit of "being ill" when it's his turn to work for the team.

[Aysedasi]

Other than that, he's just a three time WDC. Must have just got lucky and had his 'head in the right place' once or twice over the years.....

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Other than that, he's just a three time WDC. Must have just got lucky and had his 'head in the right place' once or twice over the years.....

You've got it one; he just had luck on his side, and for two of the WDCs it was all down to mechanical unreliability for Rosberg.

[Oldtony]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Both Toto Wolff and paddy Lowe said that he was talking absolute spherical objects, and Toto also joked that it would be in his book when he writes it. It ranks alongside his blown engine conspiracy theory, and his question about whatever it was upsetting him at the time, 'Is it because I am black?'

He is just an annoying drama queen, who happens to be able to drive a car quickly when his head is in the right place and he feels like it. Mostly excludes testing when he has a nasty habit of "being ill" when it's his turn to work for the team.

Exactly Mike.
As I said in an earlier post Nico is very much a team player, Lewis is demonstrably much less so.
Thus the conflict between an individualist and a team spirited group.
F1 is either a team sport or the existing rules and resources are misplaced.

[JohnSSC]

Originally Posted by gert

I don't think the mechanics merry-go-round has anything to do with the car failures.

Those guys are all working for Mercedes, and are probably amongst the best.
If Mercedes didn't think they were fit for the job, they wouldn't be there: not on Lewis' car, not on Nico's car.

Exactly.

It takes all the fun out of the whole conspiracy theory game but it really beggars belief that 3 mechanics are somehow able to ensure reliability where the others are not.

[chillibowl]

in hindsight and given what we know now, is it still fair to call Nico a team player?

if F1 is a team sport and we know what the mechanics sacrifice each year to aid their driver, then how admirable is it that Nico left one year early and only after he accomplished his dream of individual victory?

he left his team and his side of the garage in a massive hole...for sure fair play to Nico for retiring but im not sure he still qualifies as a team player.

this is of course not to say that LH is a better team player or anything, rather, just saying that both these guys have been playing at the same game.

[Oldtony]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

in hindsight and given what we know now, is it still fair to call Nico a team player?

if F1 is a team sport and we know what the mechanics sacrifice each year to aid their driver, then how admirable is it that Nico left one year early and only after he accomplished his dream of individual victory?

he left his team and his side of the garage in a massive hole...for sure fair play to Nico for retiring but im not sure he still qualifies as a team player.

this is of course not to say that LH is a better team player or anything, rather, just saying that both these guys have been playing at the same game.

Fair comment Chilli.
Let's put it down to the inbuilt identity crisis in F1.
Is it an individual or team sport?

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Is it an individual or team sport?

for my part i dont have an answer for that...no doubt i spend more time talking about the drivers so i guess i fall more on the 'individual' side of things but even that is situational.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

in hindsight and given what we know now, is it still fair to call Nico a team player?

if F1 is a team sport and we know what the mechanics sacrifice each year to aid their driver, then how admirable is it that Nico left one year early and only after he accomplished his dream of individual victory?

Completely disagree. If you try and apply this to the real world then it doesn't stand-up. If I achieve what I want in my professional life, I'm free to leave my employer any time I want. They pay me to do a job, I do it, and that's it. I don't owe them anything, and I can leave whenever I want. Remember that this isn't just a sport - it's a job. Any other athelte in any other sport wouldn't be called selfish for retiring, and any other employee in any other sport wouldn't be called selfish for retiring.

Rosberg was paid to do a job by Mercedes and he did. That is all he owns them. Arguably in 2016, he did that job better than anyone else in the entire world. It also isn't fair to say he's left after accomplishing his individual victory as he also accomplished the teams championship 3 times in a row.

You could also argue that it is not a team player who would stick around after he's accomplished his lifes goal and take up a top seat, bringing in the cash whilst doing it. I'd argue he's more of a team player, than say, Damon Hill, who spent over 6 months deciding if he'd retire or not, whilst earning some nice money.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

in hindsight and given what we know now, is it still fair to call Nico a team player?

if F1 is a team sport and we know what the mechanics sacrifice each year to aid their driver, then how admirable is it that Nico left one year early and only after he accomplished his dream of individual victory?

he left his team and his side of the garage in a massive hole...for sure fair play to Nico for retiring but im not sure he still qualifies as a team player.

this is of course not to say that LH is a better team player or anything, rather, just saying that both these guys have been playing at the same game.

I agree wholeheartedly...

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Completely disagree. If you try and apply this to the real world then it doesn't stand-up. If I achieve what I want in my professional life, I'm free to leave my employer any time I want. They pay me to do a job, I do it, and that's it. I don't owe them anything, and I can leave whenever I want. Remember that this isn't just a sport - it's a job. Any other athelte in any other sport wouldn't be called selfish for retiring, and any other employee in any other sport wouldn't be called selfish for retiring.

Rosberg was paid to do a job by Mercedes and he did. That is all he owns them. Arguably in 2016, he did that job better than anyone else in the entire world. It also isn't fair to say he's left after accomplishing his individual victory as he also accomplished the teams championship 3 times in a row.

You could also argue that it is not a team player who would stick around after he's accomplished his lifes goal and take up a top seat, bringing in the cash whilst doing it. I'd argue he's more of a team player, than say, Damon Hill, who spent over 6 months deciding if he'd retire or not, whilst earning some nice money.

As I've said elsewhere, if it'd been Lewis Hamilton who'd just binned his team after they'd helped him to win the WDC there would have been pages & pages of *****ing about his attitude on here...

[Akrapovic]

You're right, people would have unfairly slated Lewis for doing it. But that doesn't make it fair to slate Rosberg for it.