360MRC 24hrs Race Proposition - Page 6

SAMD · 18 Dec 2010, 21:20 (Ref:2806118)

I came down my lane tonight in the Pajero J top with the big chunky tyres on, and the whole family in the back, and thought - shoot this is not good, another 3 inches of snow has fallen, the tracks from this afternoon are covered over. We are getting past the 'fun stage', this is starting to become serious.
So the Unimog is getting put in the Garage shortly and a bit of a service done. As this is only December we may need the Mog yet this winter.

Al Weyman · 18 Dec 2010, 22:33 (Ref:2806133)

My Chevy Blazer S10 was Ace in the snow this afternoon, dunno what it is about that much slated vehicle maybe the awesome torque and smooth transition of power fronm the 4.3 V6 and rare manual transmission and the fact you can pull away on tick over and the sheer weight of the thing but it seems unstoppable ln the snow when all around were getting stuck including a new M5! Glad you got back OK Claire I knew it was a good call to turn back.

**Tim Falce** · 18 Dec 2010, 22:49 (Ref:2806140)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClaireSmith

Got back at 6.30! turned back Al after I spoke to you and it took me that long to get back ...dont ya just love rear wheel drive bemmers in the snow!!!

Does this mean I wont get my T shirt before Christmas? It's my main present to my wife and I think she'll be upset now as she'll only be getting the new ironing board she asked for 6 months ago. Will I end up here?

MartinSmith · 18 Dec 2010, 23:53 (Ref:2806161)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

Does this mean I wont get my T shirt before Christmas? It's my main present to my wife and I think she'll be upset now as she'll only be getting the new ironing board she asked for 6 months ago. Will I end up here?

I will get it to you somehow

**Tim Falce** · 19 Dec 2010, 10:57 (Ref:2806257)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClaireSmith

I will get it to you somehow

No rush as long as I have it by April 29th, she needs something smart to wear at the wedding.

MartinSmith · 19 Dec 2010, 13:51 (Ref:2806314)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

No rush as long as I have it by April 29th, she needs something smart to wear at the wedding.

Ohhh....I will have to wear something else then now...I dont want to clash

Lancsbreaker · 20 Dec 2010, 15:52 (Ref:2806562)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

In that case, for one particular car, I am stupid.

Thank you.

Our 944 Turbo has run for the last 5 seasons with totally standard fuel tank and filler - just standard locking cap. Never any problems with scrutineering, never any leakages or fuel pickup probems........

Guess Porsche are pretty stupid.....

terence · 20 Dec 2010, 19:23 (Ref:2806636)

Hopefully not from a Jerry Can?

PenelopePitstop · 21 Dec 2010, 08:34 (Ref:2806796)

Quote:

Our 944 Turbo has run for the last 5 seasons with totally standard fuel tank and filler - just standard locking cap. Never any problems with scrutineering, never any leakages or fuel pickup probems........

I guess you did not refuel in the pit lane then.

Lancsbreaker · 22 Dec 2010, 18:24 (Ref:2807477)

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenelopePitstop

I guess you did not refuel in the pit lane then.

Re-fuel from jerry cans, but in the paddock - we've only done CSCC 40 minute races which only need around 1/2 tank with a decent safety margin...

MartinSmith · 22 Dec 2010, 18:47 (Ref:2807488)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Re-fuel from jerry cans, but in the paddock - we've only done CSCC 40 minute races which only need around 1/2 tank with a decent safety margin...

We would not allow you to refuel like that at the 6 hour or indeed if we do it, the 24 hour. Our regs for the six hour this year were compliant with the 2011 Regs.

It will be dump churns or dry break as such. The dump churns are cheap but can create issues in respect of filler caps on the slant etc, making the valve not function correctly. However, through looking about (web etc) i see that extension pipes can be obtained that effectively make it easy for the jug to be upright and therefore the valve function correctly and re fueling to be carried out safely.

of course we could always gop back to metal jerry cans and cigerettes etc....but im not sure as thats the best practice...Think we will stick to Tuff Jugs or Dry Break lol

Ta
C

Lancsbreaker · 22 Dec 2010, 19:16 (Ref:2807502)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClaireSmith

We would not allow you to refuel like that at the 6 hour or indeed if we do it, the 24 hour.

Understand that of course - it was more a response to Peter's dismissal of anyone who used such a system in any form of racing as "stupid"

I've never been to the Spa six-hour but have read the reports, which seem to indicate that everyone has to queue up at a petrol pump to refuel......never quite sure why this is a safer method of refuelling than pouring from a jerry can - if you're careless with a fuel pump I'm sure you can wreak just as much havoc!

Mike Bell · 22 Dec 2010, 19:30 (Ref:2807507)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

I've never been to the Spa six-hour but have read the reports, which seem to indicate that everyone has to queue up at a petrol pump to refuel......never quite sure why this is a safer method of refuelling than pouring from a jerry can - if you're careless with a fuel pump I'm sure you can wreak just as much havoc!

Yes, but pumps are away from the pitlane. All the cars refuel in a controlled area away from the pits. Well, supposedly controlled

It can be good spectator sport watching.

**Tim Falce** · 22 Dec 2010, 20:55 (Ref:2807521)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClaireSmith

We would not allow you to refuel like that at the 6 hour or indeed if we do it, the 24 hour. Our regs for the six hour this year were compliant with the 2011 Regs.

It will be dump churns or dry break as such. The dump churns are cheap but can create issues in respect of filler caps on the slant etc, making the valve not function correctly. However, through looking about (web etc) i see that extension pipes can be obtained that effectively make it easy for the jug to be upright and therefore the valve function correctly and re fueling to be carried out safely.

of course we could always gop back to metal jerry cans and cigerettes etc....but im not sure as thats the best practice...Think we will stick to Tuff Jugs or Dry Break lol

Ta
C

If someone has a thirsty car at say 1 litre per minute does that mean they need to have 18 dump churns assuming they wont be more than 20 litres each for the 6 hour and 72 for a 24 hour race?

midgetman · 22 Dec 2010, 21:49 (Ref:2807538)

>>>>>>However, through looking about (web etc) i see that extension pipes can be obtained that effectively make it easy for the jug to be upright and therefore the valve function correctly and re fueling to be carried

Could you give me chapter & verse on that Claire, I believed it wasn't available? We used an extension pipe last year which JG approved, but it bypassed the spring valve.

BTW, anyone see the pic in Motor Sport this month of Stuck being refuelled in the F1 March, holding the funnel up with his head!

**Peter Mallett** · 23 Dec 2010, 04:57 (Ref:2807615)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Understand that of course - it was more a response to Peter's dismissal of anyone who used such a system in any form of racing as "stupid"

And I maintain that position for numerous reasons that I won't go into here. However I note your car is fuel injection, thus a sealed system which would explain why it passes scrutineering.

On the point of refueling and extension pipes: Surely that effectively negates the "dry break" effect of the churns? Remember the churns stop filling when the tank is full. Putting an extension pipe on to a filler nozzle means that you can potentially fill the extension before the cut off works thereby retaining a volume of fuel outside of the tank and the churn. Where does that go? If that is the case then IMO it fails the test applied by the regs.

Mike Bell · 23 Dec 2010, 05:33 (Ref:2807621)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

On the point of refueling and extension pipes: Surely that effectively negates the "dry break" effect of the churns? Remember the churns stop filling when the tank is full. Putting an extension pipe on to a filler nozzle means that you can potentially fill the extension before the cut off works thereby retaining a volume of fuel outside of the tank and the churn. Where does that go? If that is the case then IMO it fails the test applied by the regs.

Agree with you there Peter. Only correct way would be extension between cut off valve and churn itself, which ain't possible with Tuff Jug. Last 3hr saw some extensions on churns that rendered cut off inoperative, and they passed scrutineering!

The main problem with filling from Jugs / Churns is getting air out of tank at same rate as fuel going in. If you can't do that the fuel will try to find somewhere else to go. Much attention needed to breather system to achieve!

MartinSmith · 23 Dec 2010, 05:56 (Ref:2807622)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

If someone has a thirsty car at say 1 litre per minute does that mean they need to have 18 dump churns assuming they wont be more than 20 litres each for the 6 hour and 72 for a 24 hour race?

Lost me there Tim. Max in garage at any one time is 60 litres I believe (3 churns at 20 litres each or if made by different firm, some churns are 25 ltre so that would mean 2 churns)

How many you have is up to you, but you can only have 3 in the garage at any one time

**Peter Mallett** · 23 Dec 2010, 05:59 (Ref:2807624)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MGDavid

There was one car last time that would pass me at full chat then round the next corner would be almost stationary, can't remember who it was

Just spotted this.

Point 1. We were never at full chat because we pegged the revs back by 800 rpm and ran a restricted exhaust.

Point 2 when the fuel pump was breaking up you were going faster than me, so your scenario never happened.

And as I said to Lancsbreaker, if you run a sealed injection system then I can see how it would pass scrutineering. But I question how you can foam fill a standard tank?

terence · 23 Dec 2010, 06:38 (Ref:2807627)

Chestnut anyone?

**Tim Falce** · 23 Dec 2010, 10:05 (Ref:2807667)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClaireSmith

Lost me there Tim. Max in garage at any one time is 60 litres I believe (3 churns at 20 litres each or if made by different firm, some churns are 25 ltre so that would mean 2 churns)

How many you have is up to you, but you can only have 3 in the garage at any one time

My point is that jerry cans seem to be banned, even in the paddock unless I have got my wires crossed, so how do you refill the churns? I would assume almost everyone needs more than 60 litres for the 6 hour.
BTW I haven't read every single post on the thread.

johngee · 23 Dec 2010, 10:12 (Ref:2807671)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

, so how do you refill the churns?

VERY carefully Tim

Seriously, it's the H & S culture. We have to state what the rules are. How they're implemented, obeyed and policed is another matter.

**Peter Mallett** · 23 Dec 2010, 10:17 (Ref:2807672)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

My point is that jerry cans seem to be banned, even in the paddock unless I have got my wires crossed, so how do you refill the churns? I would assume almost everyone needs more than 60 litres for the 6 hour.
BTW I haven't read every single post on the thread.

This year we walked over to the fuel station and refilled the churns then carried them back to the pit garage or the truck/trailer if there was already fuel in the garage. Part of the keep fit campaign.

MartinSmith · 23 Dec 2010, 11:50 (Ref:2807695)

Quote:

Originally Posted by johngee

VERY carefully Tim

Seriously, it's the H & S culture. We have to state what the rules are. How they're implemented, obeyed and policed is another matter.

Ok Im quoting my 360 classmate but taking Peter Mallets post into consideration.

there is also the other major factor....COMMON SENSE lol

now people this thread is about the 24 hour proposition, not just about refueling so I wont keep on about it.

In the garage, its 60 litres top, do what PM did this year, fill either from the pump or from your own container, so long as its within regs and safe.

I thank you x

MGDavid · 23 Dec 2010, 11:59 (Ref:2807702)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

My point is that jerry cans seem to be banned, even in the paddock unless I have got my wires crossed, .........

I don't think that was the rule last year, I *think* (without checking) the refuelling rules only covered the pit lane and the garages. We refilled our jug in the mobile workshop (while it was stationary of course).

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