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Old 18 Jun 2009, 23:58 (Ref:2486253)   #26
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Originally Posted by the sniper View Post
Oh ...

Anyone who thinks this is good, no matter how much you hate Max and Bernie, is an absolute fool.

The fall out of this will rock this sport to it's very foundations.

Single seater racing will never be the same again...
Hold your breath... in the next few days you'll see a fall.
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Old 19 Jun 2009, 00:03 (Ref:2486255)   #27
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Let's hope the BBC can get out of their contract if this goes ahead! No-one wants to watch Williams and Force India battling it out whilst everyone else is on Sky or something...
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Old 19 Jun 2009, 00:08 (Ref:2486258)   #28
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In the 80's Don King was a force in Boxing, everyone has to fall sooner or later. Bernie must fall, his days as an F1 supremo looks set to be over!
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Old 19 Jun 2009, 00:09 (Ref:2486259)   #29
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I just wonder where this leaves the Donington revamp because F1 or no F1, I think the new plans are pretty good and would benefit other racing series as well.

I hope they can still go ahead somehow.
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Old 19 Jun 2009, 00:11 (Ref:2486260)   #30
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Bad news, I really didn't think it would come to this ... the pinnacle of motorsport can only be diluted :/
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Old 19 Jun 2009, 00:12 (Ref:2486261)   #31
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Personally for someone that prefers LMS style racing, I'd love to see some of the F1 teams racing at Le Mans!
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Old 19 Jun 2009, 00:12 (Ref:2486262)   #32
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If they do honour their promise to listen to the fans this could maybe be a perfect opportunity to start a fresh and go even further with the rule changes to promote better on track action. If this doesn't ruin the sport then there is a small chance that we have a better racing series! lets just keep our fingers crossed eh?
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Old 19 Jun 2009, 00:13 (Ref:2486263)   #33
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Relax people, this is phase one... watch for the next events.
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Old 19 Jun 2009, 00:17 (Ref:2486267)   #34
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Relax people, this is phase one... watch for the next events.
This is true Bononi. We could still be in realms of brinkmanship, though this is the ultimate manoeuvre by FOTA.
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Old 19 Jun 2009, 00:21 (Ref:2486268)   #35
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Originally Posted by the sniper View Post
Oh ...

Anyone who thinks this is good, no matter how much you hate Max and Bernie, is an absolute fool.

The fall out of this will rock this sport to it's very foundations.

Single seater racing will never be the same again...
change is rarely smooth, and rarely without bloodshed. So of course these things in isolation are not good for the sport.

But dying a slow death of a million cuts for fear of change serves no profit either.

I think the main thing to keep in mind is to not be too idealistic that a manufacturer led series will be the path to motoring nirvana. But certainly their opening manifesto is what has been required in f1 for a while, and management have had eons of time to fix, but have simply failed to address.

their flip flopping of the rulebooks and regulations has cost manufacturers more money season on season, and would have negated the necessity for budget caps. Their intrusion in the actual "on-field" sport is overbearing, unwarranted, and with a lust for theatrics and media attention, above any beyond sporting spectacle (ie malaysia this year).

it's not hard to see that from a management perspective, f1 has been served very poorly of late. We are yet to see if a manufacturer led series would be any different.
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Old 19 Jun 2009, 00:24 (Ref:2486270)   #36
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Single seater racing will never be the same again...
I do hope your right about that.
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Old 19 Jun 2009, 00:25 (Ref:2486272)   #37
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Hold your breath... in the next few days you'll see a fall.
I think you're right there.
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Old 19 Jun 2009, 00:42 (Ref:2486274)   #38
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Personally for someone that prefers LMS style racing, I'd love to see some of the F1 teams racing at Le Mans!
Well what about a series that incorporates elements of LMS and F1; real race strategy, real pitstops and real racing?
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Old 19 Jun 2009, 00:45 (Ref:2486276)   #39
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change is rarely smooth, and rarely without bloodshed. So of course these things in isolation are not good for the sport.

But dying a slow death of a million cuts for fear of change serves no profit either.

I think the main thing to keep in mind is to not be too idealistic that a manufacturer led series will be the path to motoring nirvana. But certainly their opening manifesto is what has been required in f1 for a while, and management have had eons of time to fix, but have simply failed to address.

their flip flopping of the rulebooks and regulations has cost manufacturers more money season on season, and would have negated the necessity for budget caps. Their intrusion in the actual "on-field" sport is overbearing, unwarranted, and with a lust for theatrics and media attention, above any beyond sporting spectacle (ie malaysia this year).

it's not hard to see that from a management perspective, f1 has been served very poorly of late. We are yet to see if a manufacturer led series would be any different.
Just a note: It's not the GPMA anymore, but FOTA. FOTA mostly consists of manufacturers, but it seems to be generally more team-centric.
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Old 19 Jun 2009, 00:45 (Ref:2486277)   #40
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Old 19 Jun 2009, 00:50 (Ref:2486279)   #41
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Well what about a series that incorporates elements of LMS and F1; real race strategy, real pitstops and real racing?
What you'll be watching (if indeed it can be watched) are this seasons cars with larger fuel tanks (no fuel stops),no KERS or any other innovations,and the promise that the regulations will remain stable.Ferrari may win quite often as well.
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Old 19 Jun 2009, 00:58 (Ref:2486282)   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the sniper View Post
Oh ...

Anyone who thinks this is good, no matter how much you hate Max and Bernie, is an absolute fool.

The fall out of this will rock this sport to it's very foundations.

Single seater racing will never be the same again...

I think this is good. I do not hate Max and Bernie. I do think that participating teams, as in many other sport leagues should control their own destiny, and I do not think any sport needs some top-heavy burearcracy to siphon off millions and millions, to award its events to the highest bidder without regard for its fan base, and on and on.

I guess I am an absolute fool...and proud of it.
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Old 19 Jun 2009, 00:58 (Ref:2486283)   #43
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Quote:
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What you'll be watching (if indeed it can be watched) are this seasons cars with larger fuel tanks (no fuel stops),no KERS or any other innovations,and the promise that the regulations will remain stable.Ferrari may win quite often as well.
But Ferrari only overtake via Fuel stops so they'll have to think of something new in the future.

That's the only other drawback for me of the Teams new rules, I really wish they'd persevere with KER's a bit longer. At the moment it just appears like a blocking device because the teams that have it struggle with Aero problems. But given enough time I think it would improve overtaking capability and strategy quite a lot.
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Old 19 Jun 2009, 01:03 (Ref:2486285)   #44
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Well ....

Now that the decision has been taken by FOTA I wish them well and will watch with interest to see how they will organise themselves and organise their sport.....

Right now I doubt we have seen the end of it but if we do get two championships next year then we will see how it pans out.
Both will not survive.
That is clear but we are in for an interesting roller coaster ride time.
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Old 19 Jun 2009, 01:04 (Ref:2486286)   #45
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Now the question is what tracks will go with the FOTA?
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Old 19 Jun 2009, 01:07 (Ref:2486287)   #46
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That's the only other drawback for me of the Teams new rules, I really wish they'd persevere with KER's a bit longer. At the moment it just appears like a blocking device because the teams that have it struggle with Aero problems. But given enough time I think it would improve overtaking capability and strategy quite a lot.
It was obvious to anyone that bothered to read them that Formula One's 2010 regulations presented by far the greatest challenge to any engineer.Unfortunately FOTA doesn't want to spend its money on new technologies and would prefer that we would watch something more "stable" instead!?

We've yet to hear from Bernie and his lawyers however!
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Old 19 Jun 2009, 01:08 (Ref:2486288)   #47
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This does all seem a bit CART/IRL-esque...you can't have 2 pinnacles of motorsport. Only one side will survive but I wouldn't want to place any bets on which one at the moment.
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Old 19 Jun 2009, 01:12 (Ref:2486289)   #48
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Monaco, Silverstone, Bahrain, Nurburgring, plus maybe any or some of the following: Hockenheim, Brno, Algarve, Valencia, Imola, Mugello, Indianapolis, Kyalami, Abu Dhabi, Malaysia, Melbourne(?) Suzuka and Shanghai.

A few new ones that want a GP and those who who will leave the FIA championship and go to FOTA if they can.
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Old 19 Jun 2009, 01:16 (Ref:2486290)   #49
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I think this is good. I do not hate Max and Bernie. I do think that participating teams, as in many other sport leagues should control their own destiny, and I do not think any sport needs some top-heavy burearcracy to siphon off millions and millions, to award its events to the highest bidder without regard for its fan base, and on and on.
But who said the manufacturers won't do that?

This is essentially going to be a series run by manufacturers and corporations. The DTM is riddled with politics and has only 2 manufacturers. Ditto the WRC. The WSC collapsed because it was heavily relied upon by manufacturers, even if Mosley pulled the rug from underneath it to a certain extent

I don't see how teams can effectively run a motor racing championship without the inevitable clashes, hissy fits and taking of the ball elsewhere. Max should indeed go and should've gone a long time ago, but the solution is to push him off his throne instead of running away to create a new throne with a few more jewels in it

It needs impartiality. The double decker diffuser argument just proved that although the teams love each other now, when it's about the racing, they'll do what they want to do and they'll act selfishly. Any innovations will be banned in this way, especially if they're made by a privateer team

If F1 can weather the first year or 2 of the storm, it might just come out the other side intact, whilst the other series eats itself
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Old 19 Jun 2009, 01:18 (Ref:2486291)   #50
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