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Old 21 Jun 2009, 14:01 (Ref:2487577)   #51
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It's far too short - the STCC cars run sub 1 minute laps there IIRC. An F1 car could probably do it in around 40 seconds or so.
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Old 21 Jun 2009, 14:46 (Ref:2487599)   #52
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Originally Posted by duke_toaster View Post
Trademarking Grand Prix
I think they tried that already & were told where to go - Pau & Long Beach are just 2 examples of non-F1 "Grand Prix" events.

Formula 1, F1 etc... is trademarked - which ironically could help a breakaway series find tracks to race on, since they can't be called Formula 1 cars; the FIA can't limit them to Grade 1 circuits.
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Old 21 Jun 2009, 16:00 (Ref:2487624)   #53
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I would assume that any FIA licenced circuit would be lent on by the FIA not to host a round of the FOTA series or risk losing their FIA track licence.

That it a threat that has been used in the past to kill of any potential breakaway series.

Ferrari own Mugello and Vallelunga so that would be 2 rounds sorted.
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Old 21 Jun 2009, 18:36 (Ref:2487751)   #54
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Old 21 Jun 2009, 19:13 (Ref:2487774)   #55
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I would assume that any FIA licenced circuit would be lent on by the FIA.
Sure they would love to do that, but for once, you can be grateful for the EU government.
the FIA told CART/CCWS that they could only run ovals at new tracks outside of america & got themselves torn a new hole for their efforts.
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Old 21 Jun 2009, 20:16 (Ref:2487810)   #56
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GP2 is owned by Renault, isn't it? So there you have your support race series for most circuits.

Your thoughts about Adelaide are looking good, I must say. They need to increase the runoff in the corner where Hakkinen had his freak accident back in the mid-90s when F1 raced there last time around.

With so many Finnish drivers signed in the series, a Finnish GP deserves to be included. And a 4th edition of the event known in the 90s as "Helsinki Thunder" shouldn't clash with FIA interests either, since this is a street race. Norbert Haug of Mercedes even was there every time as part of the Mercedes works team AMG that ran in DTM, ITC and GTs during the last event there so far, so he should know the right people.

From the things that have transpired through the press about Monaco, Prince Albert is apparently free to take his race to whichever series he wants.

Hockenheim has got a contract with Bernie for 2010. N├╝rburgring has got one for 2011 and maybe even longer, but only for every 2 years. So Lausitzring might indeed be a good location to fill in for 2010 until Hockenheim becomes available.

Montreal's Ile de Notre Dame circuit is now being operated by people from NASCAR, so there is no need for an FIA clearance there. The same goes for the Indy Road Circuit of Indianapolis Motor Speedway.

The manufacturer-owned circuits should be in as well: Imola, A1-Ring, Fuji. Mugello would be an option if an additional event were needed to fill up the calendar.

Then, there are those tracks who are available, but might not want to lose FIA-sanctioned events, if they have them: Jerez, Ricardo Tormo, Magny-Cours, Portimao/Algarve, Zandvoort (who only have so much paddock space), maybe even Silverstone, who surely want to make a comeback next year. I'm not sure about Dubai, the home of the SpeedCar series.

Bernie surely knows whom of these to talk to to protect his piece of cake, so the manufacturers better watch out.

About Mexico City: I remember watching an A1GP race there when they ran the Peraltada without any chicanes. And yes, it must be equipped with a safer barrier all around for this series, just like it is common practise these days in oval racing.
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Old 22 Jun 2009, 02:01 (Ref:2487985)   #57
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Here's my proposed schedule, trying to respect other events at the different tracks, and their status with the AKMB (Absolute Kingdom of Max and Bernie)

2/7/2010 Argentina Potrero de los Funes
2/28/2010 Qatar Losail
3/14/2010 Emirates Dubai
4/4/2010 San Marino Imola
4/18/2010 Portugal Algarve (or Estoril)
5/2/2010 Germany Lausitzring
5/16/2010 Great Britain Silverstone
5/30/2010 Monaco Monaco
6/20/2010 Canada Montreal
6/27/2010 United States Indianapolis
7/18/2010 France Magny-Cours
8/1/2010 Spain Jerez (or Valencia/Ricardo Tormo)
8/15/2010 Hungary Balatonring
8/29/2010 Europe Le Mans-Bugatti
9/12/2010 Italy Mugello
10/3/2010 Japan Fuji
10/17/2010 China Zhuhai
10/31/2010 Australia Adelaide

They need to build the series around permanent circuits. If they're only going to do street circuits, you might as well sports car racing and save your money. CART tried street circuits and the races were utter trash. 1 or 2 is OK, any more than that isn't.
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Old 22 Jun 2009, 06:53 (Ref:2488051)   #58
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What About Brands Hatch GP, I Know its not a Grade 1 Track, But it has held F1 Before..
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Old 22 Jun 2009, 08:51 (Ref:2488118)   #59
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I vote Cadwell park. Entirely unsuitable for F1 cars, but what a great circuit. Would be great to see an F1 car go round there.
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Old 22 Jun 2009, 09:17 (Ref:2488139)   #60
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I would love a return of serious single seater racing to the streets of my fair city. But with all due respect to other posters in this forum, realistically there is a minute chance of Adelaide being a part of a FOTA calendar.

Let's face facts.

- The place isn't safe for modern "Grand Prix" cars in its current form. A lack of run off through the Chicane, at the bottom of Brabham Straight and around the pit entry jump to mind.

- Despite the new pit building for this year's Clipsal 500 (replacing the original one from 1985) the paddock is still tiny.

Because the Adelaide City Council and State Government couldn't come to terms, the planned multi million dollar upgrade of Victoria Park (with dual purpose Motor and Horse Racing facilities) including a realigning of the Victoria Park section of the track, hasn't gone ahead. Considering the bad blood between these two bodies, I'd be surprised if a FOTA race carrot would be sufficient for them to up back into bed with each other.

- IF a race was to happen within the next 12-18 months (less than 12 months if other posters suggestions about holding it around the Clipsal 500 time are followed) it would have to be run on the existing GP track with the old hairy pit entry and exit. This current crop of drivers would be screaming about how unsafe it is. Hell, people were complaining about it 20 year ago!

- A return to using the GP length of the street circuit would require resurfacing of the stretch from Bartels Rd, East Tce, Rundle Rd and Dequeteville Tce. That's not cheap and time is getting short for it to be cured in time for a March 2010 race.

- Therefore, in my opinion, for there to be the slightest chance of a race (assuming Formula Toys Out of the Pram takes off) happening, it would require serious co-operation between State/Federal/Council to push forward the redevelopment plans for Victoria Park. And the possible negotiation with FOTA for a October/November 2010 date. This COULD allow for the necessary would to be done in time.

- As for the idea of a night race...I like it but good luck finding the cash for that on top off the other upgrades needed.

It's flattering for Adelaide to be bantered around as a possible venue but its not going to happen. Sad but true.
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Old 22 Jun 2009, 09:25 (Ref:2488146)   #61
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circuits

i'd also like to see Montreal again, also i'd have Silverstone me thinks it has a better ring then Donnington
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Old 22 Jun 2009, 10:23 (Ref:2488172)   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Mallett View Post
As discussed here, http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116523 with FOTA breaking away what does it mean for the circuits? IIRC the FIA has the right to the title Grand Prix and indeed Formula One (although that may be Bernie).

So, it raises the question of what these breakaway races will be and where will they be held?

I suspect we may well be looking at the traditional circuits, such as Monza and Silverstone, not to mention Nurburgring, but I suspect Monaco will be dropped because of it's links with the FIA and Bernie.
I dont think it means anything for the circuits except more business if there are two series.

You have to remember what the FIA's role is. Regardless of MM's personal opinions, the FIA is the sports international regulator. It does not directly run F1 or any other series. Its role is actually very similar to the government regulators you see in some business sectors i.e. setting standards etc. If the FOTA series applies for FIA recognition and adheres to FIA rules (which are very high level sporting and safety issues, not commercial) then the FIA is obliged to recognise the FOTA series as it is with any proposed series at any level that adheres to its rules.

With regard to the circuits - you have competition law at work. It would not be permissable for F1 to have a contract with a circuit that excludes a competing series. In any event, most of the current F1 circuit contracts are already in place and are multi-year deals. And as the FOTA series did not exist when the deals were signed, then it is impossible for it to be mentioned in the contracts. So if an existing F1 circuit signs a deal with FOTA, there is nothing F1 can do about it. In the current climate, no circuit owner is going to agree to amend his contract to put him in a less favourable position. F1 will have no option but to either stage the F1 race as scheduled or pay the circuit owner millions in compensation to buy themselves out of the contract. To be honest, if I were a circuit owner, I'd take the millions in compensation now if it were on offer because there is no guarantee that Bernie and F1 will be around in the future to perform their contract with me.
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Old 22 Jun 2009, 11:39 (Ref:2488224)   #63
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Based on Dieter Rencken's idea of FOTA taking over A1GP I would suggest the following:

1. Kyalami
2. Mugello
3. Nurburgring
4. Zandvoort
5. Brands Hatch
6. Monaco
7. Montreal
8. Indianapolis
9. Silverstone
10. Magny Cours
11. Brno
12. Spa
13. Hockenheim
14. Surfers Paradise
15. Fuji
16. Portimao
17. Interlagos
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Old 22 Jun 2009, 12:02 (Ref:2488247)   #64
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GP2 is owned by Renault, isn't it?
No, it's owned by Bernie and Flavio
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Old 22 Jun 2009, 12:34 (Ref:2488279)   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duke_toaster View Post
Disclaimer : this post does not affect my view that this is just brinkmanship and is unlikely to happen outside of the land of the press release. However I am assuming it does in this scenario.

Trademarking Grand Prix is an interesting thing - if Bernie had ownership to all uses of the term Grand Prix the courts would be jammed up with him suing the IAAF, Dorna, FIM, numerous showjumping events, whoever the promoters are for Speedway Grand Prix, International Badminton Federation and half of the world's sports governing bodies and commercial promoters.

I don't think Bernie owns the name Grand Prix. He might own British Grand Prix et al et al. If he does he would have sued the IndyCar events, GPMA and GPWC.

Also, FOTA could sue under competition regulation requiring the FIA to sanction other series. Other new sports leagues have sued on competition grounds, the USFL did but it sort of killed them (winning only four US dollars in damages). I think this has been mentioned before. If the FIA start taking licences away, the circuits could sue. The only real winners

Logical venues would probably be as follows.

Valencia Ricardo Tormo : F1 grade venue, holds MotoGP, in Spain. Not that long though.
Silverstone : No FIA top level events next year, major fan interest.
Mugello : It's owned by Ferrari
Indianapolis Motor Speedway : If the FIA ban them, are Tony George, the FIM and Bill France really going to care?
Magny Cours, Valleunga and other 1T licences : Nothing to lose.
Temporary circuits : Obvious reasons.

It would be difficult to get things together to kick off in nine months time though, I'd imagine it would start in the mid-summer next year. If it ever happens.
Unless things have changed recently, the title 'British Grand Prix' belongs to the MSA, or at least they claim it does. When it was muted that the race might go out of this country, the MSA said 'You can take the race wherever you wish, but the title is ours and it stays here'. As for circuits, what about Circuit Paul Ricard', owned by BE and would'nt take long to be up to F1 standards and he wouldnt take long to offer the circuit to FOTA. IMHO.
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Old 22 Jun 2009, 13:26 (Ref:2488307)   #66
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Indeed, race titles such as "British Grand Prix" not not owned by Bernie. There was some palava a few years ago when Hockenheim and Nurburgring starting the alternating track agreement. Hockenhiem were unwilling to let go of their title "German Grand Prix" and so when the race alternated to the Nurburgring, they had to use their title of "European Grand Prix".
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Old 22 Jun 2009, 18:28 (Ref:2488496)   #67
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Indeed, race titles such as "British Grand Prix" not not owned by Bernie. There was some palava a few years ago when Hockenheim and Nurburgring starting the alternating track agreement. Hockenhiem were unwilling to let go of their title "German Grand Prix" and so when the race alternated to the Nurburgring, they had to use their title of "European Grand Prix".
Wrong, it did not belong to them. It was/is a title bestowed on any other circuit which held a meeting as well as it's own regular GP, ie, the Donington Park meeting was the European Grand Prix, though now seems to be stuck in Germany because no one else now holds two meetings.
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Old 22 Jun 2009, 20:49 (Ref:2488568)   #68
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though now seems to be stuck in Germany because no one else now holds two meetings.
Um... Spain? Valencia?
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Old 23 Jun 2009, 00:44 (Ref:2488675)   #69
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I understand that Interlagos and Spa will definitely not be on any 'breakaway' calendar according to the Guardian newspaper.
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Old 23 Jun 2009, 04:28 (Ref:2488746)   #70
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I don't think any of the current circuits (and broadcasters for that matter)will be looking to honour their existing contracts if the FIA attempts to run a series without the breakaway teams.There would have to be a clause in the contracts which protects them being offerred a substantially inferior product and having to accept it.The crux of the legal procedings by the FIA is that they have no intention to run a series without the FOTA teams because it is no more viable than A1 GP.Bernie would understand this.There will only be 1 series next year although I have no idea who will win out and finish running it.
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Old 23 Jun 2009, 07:47 (Ref:2488812)   #71
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Um... Spain? Valencia?
Oooooops,
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Old 23 Jun 2009, 09:47 (Ref:2488884)   #72
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Crash.net have published a leaked calendar (nicked from The Grauniad):

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/148803/...ar_leaked.html
Pure speculation on the part of The Guardian, so I take it with a bucketful of salt.
I suspect the link will be removed quickly so I have listed the circuits below:
3 March Buenos Aires Argentina Last hosted F1 in 1998
21 March Mexico City Mexico Last hosted F1 in 1992
11 April Jerez Spain Last hosted F1 in 1997
25 April Portimao Portugal Never hosted F1
2 May Imola San Marino Last hosted F1 in 2006
23 May Monte Carlo Monaco Current F1 host
6 June Montreal Canada Last hosted F1 in 2008
13 June Indianapolis United States Last hosted F1 in 2007
1 July Silverstone United Kingdom Current F1 host
25 July Magny-Cours France Last hosted F1 in 2008
15 August Laustizring Germany Never hosted F1
29 August Helsinki Finland Never hosted F1
12 September Monza Italy Current F1 host
26 September Abu Dhabi United Arab Emirates Current F1 host
10 October Marina Bay Singapore Current F1 host
24 October Suzuka Japan Last hosted F1 in 2006
8 November Adelaide or Surfers' Paradise Australia Last hosted F1 in 1995/Never hosted F1

Last edited by ford prefect; 23 Jun 2009 at 09:49. Reason: missed detail
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Old 23 Jun 2009, 10:03 (Ref:2488896)   #73
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Take out Buenos Aries and replace it with San Luis and that'd be a great calendar!
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Old 23 Jun 2009, 10:26 (Ref:2488918)   #74
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I would have thought that there would be a couple less flyaway races and a couple more in Europe.

The series will want to get the core support on board and minimise costs for the teams, so a lot of races in Europe makes sense.
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Old 23 Jun 2009, 10:58 (Ref:2488942)   #75
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I think it's a good schedule, but it would be better with Spa. Also, given the long term presence of Brazilian drivers at the front, I would like to see a Brazilian race. Add Rio right after Argentina and dump Abu Dhabi for Spa and I am content.
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