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Old 7 Nov 2021, 22:31 (Ref:4082053)   #1
The SpeCTator
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The SpeCTator should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Sad demise of AMOC?

The 19th August edition of Autosport carried the paragraph,
"The final scheduled AMOC event of 2021 is at the Formula Ford Festival and Peter Snowdon says determined planning is underway to ensure this is a success"
Come the day of the Festival there was a 20 minutes qualifying session for the 2 x 25 minute races for 6 cars of which 2 were Aston Martins. Enough said.
A fantastic meeting prevailed only spoiled by time afforded to AMOC.
I have never met Peter but I feel very sorry for him.
It's really tough when someone works so hard and get little or no support but it's also time to recognise the signs that flogging a dead horse achieves nothing.
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Old 8 Nov 2021, 21:01 (Ref:4082258)   #2
The Fat Clerk
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The Fat Clerk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridThe Fat Clerk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Unfortunately just another club on the lengthening list.

Remember Peterborough, 8 Clubs, SUNBAC etc etc.
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Old 8 Nov 2021, 23:46 (Ref:4082282)   #3
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Lets face it motor racing is becoming more and more elitist just like it was in the 50s and early 60s when "most" drivers came from well healed families.
Everybody wants their pennyworth from race parts to entries as it's a business and some people will cherry pick on what meetings they want (or can afford) to do. I was very lucky in that I worked for myself and earned good money, my wife also had a high powered job and we had no offspring that can be a money pit. I also had very good sponsorship with all the entries paid for as well as a lot of the parts and did all of the work including engine builds and bodywork on the car myself, so I did it on a shoestring budget in comparison to a lot of people that finished a long way behind me ! I have known people go completely broke and have lost their re mortgaged house along with their spose because it is addictive, costs add up when people start paying another 2K or so to go half a second faster rather than actually spending time thinking can they really afford it ?
Motor racing has always been expensive and unless you have a money tree or a job with a large disposable income then you might just as well light the fire with it and be better off
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Old 9 Nov 2021, 11:44 (Ref:4082340)   #4
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Motor racing is no more expensive now than it has ever been. It always.cost all your money and just a little bit more.

Another problem is fewer people want to do it. My local car club centre has been cancelling events left right and centre because of a lack of entries.



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Old 9 Nov 2021, 23:30 (Ref:4082496)   #5
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[QUOTE=midgetman;4082340]Motor racing is no more expensive now than it has ever been. It always.cost all your money and just a little bit more.

Another problem is fewer people want to do it. My local car club centre has been cancelling events left right and centre because of a lack of entries.]




I beg to differ regarding costs.
When I started back in the 60s the regulations were nothing like they are now, we didn't have to buy official racing overalls/foot ware /special crash helmets/fire extinguishers and 6 point harnesses with a life that you had to renew every now and then or medicals for a race licence, also when I was a red top hot rod driver in the late 60s early70s we were paid to race with appearance money and if it was an abroad meeting we had the ferry paid for as well.
Even down to the tow vehicle we could use a small car or van legally until all the regulations changed regarding train weights. OK it has made things safer but a lot more expensive IMHO
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Balls of steel (knob of butter) They're Asking For Larkins. ( Proper beer) not you're Eurofizz crap. Hace más calor en España. Me han conocido a hablar un montón cojones! Send any cheques and cash to PO box 1 Lagos Nigeria Africa !
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Old 10 Nov 2021, 12:18 (Ref:4082562)   #6
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The Fat Clerk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridThe Fat Clerk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I'm withy you on the cost theme Gordon.
The rules and regs just seem to get stricter each year.
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Old 10 Nov 2021, 12:52 (Ref:4082568)   #7
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Gordon yes you are right, I was trying to crowbar an old joke into the discussion.

When I too started barriers to entry were much fewer and much lower. But my point about desire to race still stands. You and I both devoted every waking moment to racing I am sure. Kids today don't, they're not interested beyond it being another good thing of life which they can pick up and put down.

Shoot don't I sound old.

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Old 10 Nov 2021, 14:30 (Ref:4082598)   #8
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The Fat Clerk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridThe Fat Clerk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Don't know about sounding old, you sound like me!
47 years in the sport so far, first had a licence in 1974.
It's an addiction like all the others.
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Old 10 Nov 2021, 15:42 (Ref:4082619)   #9
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One thing that seems absolutely potty to me is that you need an ARDS stiff ticket before you're allowed to race, unlike 55 years ago, and that costs loads.

And the reason that I say potty is because I would say that driving standards nowadays are far poorer than they were back in the days when I competed. I managed 5 years of cut and thrust competition without one bit of damage to my car. I admit that two scratches happened, one when I misjudged my entry into the covered part of the Brands paddock and just touched one of the side poles with one of the extended rear wheel arches. And the second happened when we were driving back to the paddock from the pits at Brands and the brakes gave up completely and I very, very gently rolled into the back of the car in front - no damage to either cars.
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Old 10 Nov 2021, 15:55 (Ref:4082625)   #10
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The Fat Clerk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridThe Fat Clerk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
What about the ARKS Test for Karting?

An 8 year old being tested is even more ridiculous,

As for driving standards................. I put a lot of the blame on things like the British Touring Cars which people watch on television and learn a style to drive in and then wonder why Clerks of the Course like me have a sense of humour failure.

Last edited by The Fat Clerk; 10 Nov 2021 at 16:02.
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Old 10 Nov 2021, 20:42 (Ref:4082674)   #11
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I haven't got a problem with the ARKS test. It does weed out some people who are totally unsuitable - I only failed a very, very small handful of drivers in my time as a tester but you really wouldn't have wanted them on track. At least one went away and acted on my recommendations and a couple of years later proudly came up to me at Rissi and said I was the springboard for his kart racing. He was only at the back of the TKM Extreme field but the smile on his face was worth it.

We race in "non MSUK" series as well, and IMO a lack of basic checking on drivers is a problem. The ARKS test is so cursory and really well done by instructors in my experience, it really does help even 8 year olds prove their capabilities.


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Old 10 Nov 2021, 21:38 (Ref:4082682)   #12
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The Fat Clerk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridThe Fat Clerk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Ok, I'll bow to your superior knowledge on Arks.

Last Kart weekend of the year for me @ Whilton Mill in 10 days time.
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Old 10 Nov 2021, 23:47 (Ref:4082702)   #13
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midgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Oh I've got some drivers there, but I'll be at Clay myself. Shame you're not doing the Whilton December meeting, I'm there then.

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Old 11 Nov 2021, 19:37 (Ref:4082853)   #14
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The Fat Clerk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridThe Fat Clerk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Funnily enough I will probably pop down as it's only a half hour drive.
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Old 11 Nov 2021, 21:22 (Ref:4082874)   #15
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justracing should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridjustracing should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Can't help but agree with your comments Gordon, I've been a motorsport fan all my life since kicking an old bladder thing never interested me and fortunately I quickly realised whilst helping mates who were racing that the financial implications were way beyond me knowing my compulsions that more is never enough! I'm staggered at the costs involved in even some of the most humble forms of racing nowadays, I attend a lot of events and speak with a lot of amateur competitors whose lifestyles have suffered significantly.
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Old 19 Nov 2021, 07:44 (Ref:4084312)   #16
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andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I am sure that costs have increased but there are still a hell of a lot of licence holders and still some clubs/ events (750, CSCC, MSVR etc) thriving. AMOC is not thriving, why is that, that’s the important question?
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Old 19 Nov 2021, 08:36 (Ref:4084316)   #17
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Maybe you've hit upon it. The multi-marque nature of the clubs you mentioned. Maybe there aren't enough core cars (Aston Martins) being raced any more to sustain a series and what they offer to other marques is covered better by other clubs.

One single Marque club that seems to do well is MGCC, but here there are many sub- marques that race, not just relying on "classic" cars. Metros, Fs, Zs - all have racing dedicated to them and there's still a pool of reasonably priced cars to draw from.

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Old 23 Nov 2021, 16:32 (Ref:4085145)   #18
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Bentley Drivers Club still thriving.
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Old 25 Nov 2021, 19:40 (Ref:4085457)   #19
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I suspect one-make championships can suffer if the vehicles involved are relatively high value/rare. The series based around the cheaper, higher volume cars seem to do OK, but I've seen some very thin grids for the more specialised vehicle series - even my beloved Alfas haven't been generating full grids, although the ARCA series organisers have done a lot of hard work which seems to be bearing fruit in larger average grids than were the case a few years ago - of course they also changed the organisation that they raced under


As a relatively recent (the last 12 years or so) convert to circuit racing, having been involved in stage rallying from the mid-70s I've largely raced with CSCC and although they have done an excellent job of maintaining and managing series which provide good racing for a wide range of vehicles, it has been noticeable that even with series that use "success penalties" to mitigate against big wallets dominating, there does seem to have been a continuing trend for the amount of money involved to escalate - you only have to look at the size of the motorhomes in the paddock



I think the issues mentioned that militate against the real amateur competing are similar in racing and rallying - the base costs of time-lifed safety kit and its maintenance, on top of the licencing and medical costs do tend to prevent, or at least put off, the "casual" competitor who might want to do the 3 or 4 "local" events, and whose entries can top up a series's core competitors to ensure reasonably full grids......


All a fair way of the question of the viability of AMOC, I accept
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Old 2 Jan 2022, 10:47 (Ref:4092180)   #20
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I think all the one make clubs have suffered in recent years. The advent of many more historic series and the cost of the cars has seen new competitors buy cars and move to what they see as prestigious events. AMOC have tried various ideas but there is an ongoing power struggle in the club between the racers and the polishers. They have submitted plans to build a heritage centre in Newport Pagnall not far from the AM sales centre.
The MGCC has seen a loss of entries as well and now has to rely on invited series to make a viable meeting. Since the Equipe series went commercial (very successfully) costs have gone up but there are lots of new competitors who have replaced those who use to race in the series like myself. Many cars are professionally built and run and a "new" FIA MG B will cost four times what mine cost me to build. Equipe now run their own meetings or buy grids for organisers. It's not just MGCC that have suffered as other series for Triumph, Healey etc have all more or less gone.
It's a similar story with Bentley DC who still run their Silverstone meeting as they get a discounted hire rate having helped BRDC at the start. Bentleys for years remained in the same family but the escalating worth has seen the latest generation cash the cars in and a completely new type of owner with unlimited funds and interests. Hence the number of Bentleys used on historic regularity rallies and the like.
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Old 2 Jan 2022, 12:15 (Ref:4092189)   #21
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The Fat Clerk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridThe Fat Clerk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Not all doom and gloom though. New clubs are still being formed. Richard Culverhouse's Classic & Modern Motorsport Club (CMMC) is one.
Now organising series for: Modified/Super Saloons, Tin Tops & Intermarque Silhouettes, mainly racing in the south with their own 2 day meeting & Mallory in May. The club also run stand alone races for Classic Cars.
www.cmmotorsportclub.com
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