Cooper T51 chevy

[driftwood]

I did offer my disclaimer!!- I can't see H n H being concerned as they are as stumped as we are and even make reference to the thread
Maybe we can send the invoice to them for the beers consumed whilst carrying out the research

(Whilst I'm enjoying your humour, drifty, I do think that you are missing the point! - see my PM! - JT)

[Ted Walker]

Alan .Im sure its a T53.regarding the copyright I think the photo was takenby Harold Barker ,in which case its mine,so dont worry.

[allenbrown]

I agree - it's much more T53 than T51 once I start to look more closely. I don't think I looked further than the butchered nose before.

The direct link to the auctioned T51 is here: http://www.classic-auctions.com/deta...4&sal_type=CAR

Allen

[David McKinney]

Motoring News 24/9/64 has a nice side-on shot of A Eccles
Definitely a T53 (unless it's FJ-based... )

During my quick flick through MNs I rather hoped I might chance on a reference to the car being ex-B Eccles - but didn't

[allenbrown]

Even in 1964! I thought he'd got himself a newer Cooper at some point but this means he had the T53 all the time.

I'm happy to accept that it's a T53 and not a FJ. Only a complete loon would put a 5-litre Chev in a FJ.

Allen

[David McKinney]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Even in 1964! I thought he'd got himself a newer Cooper at some point but this means he had the T53 all the time.

No.
See my posts #15 and 19

[Ted Walker]

John Macklin put a Buick in the back of a Cooper Junior,and I think one of Wally Cuffs "Hells Hammers" was a junior with 4.5 Daimler Majestic engine in the back.

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by David McKinney

No.
See my posts #15 and 19

I must stop writing in shorthand - or shortthink. I meant to express surprise that he had used the same car through the whole of 1964 and 1965 given that his competitiveness changed radically in the late summer of 1965. If he'd had the T53 in 1964, it really didn't work at all well.

Looking at the history I have on the Bryan Eccles car, I see that we had reached no conclusions on what it was. It was said to be ex-Yeoman-Credit/Roy Salvadori so the most likely car would be the one that Y-C used in Intercontinental racing in 1961 (as "F1-5-61" according to F1R, which it wasn't), then in NZ and Aus in 1962 and back there again as Bowmaker's spare in 1963. The other possibility is the T58 which was bought by Yeoman-Credit in mid or late 1962 and used at the Mexican GP with a BRM V8 engine.

Photographs of the car in New Zealand in 1963 and of Bryan Eccles car in 1963 would make an interesting comparison.

Sorry - I realise this is now well OT.

Allen

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

... I'm happy to accept that it's a T53 and not a FJ. Only a complete loon would put a 5-litre Chev in a FJ.

Originally Posted by Ted Walker

John Macklin put a Buick in the back of a Cooper Junior,and I think one of Wally Cuffs "Hells Hammers" was a junior with 4.5 Daimler Majestic engine in the back.

Not sure whether you're disagreeing with me or supporting my case!

OK, I have a better arguement than sanity. If you compare the Eccles car with the FJ Mk3A in the picture I referenced above (Autosport October 2, 1964 p526), isn't the Eccles car substantially larger?

Allen

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

I must stop writing in shorthand - or shortthink. I meant to express surprise that he had used the same car through the whole of 1964 and 1965 given that his competitiveness changed radically in the late summer of 1965. If he'd had the T53 in 1964, it really didn't work at all well.

Aarrghh! I'm still doing it. It was August 1964 when he suddenly got quicker, not August 1965. So David's completely right and I'm talking complete rubbish.

Allen

[Ted Walker]

Allen I was making the point that there were "loons" around.John Harper told me that he completly destroyed the fist Summers Cooper Chevy at Mallory park,all he was left with was the steering wheel in his hand all the rest was scattered around him.........thats a "loony"

[Ted Walker]

It was sold at H& H auctions on wed. It will be interesting to see what happens to it now ?????

[jamesholland]

It would be nice to think it will be restored in it's present guise - fat chance of that I reckon.

[John Turner]

According to the latest issue of Motorsport, this did indeed turn out to be ex David Hepworth, and it was purchased at the auction by his sons who intend to restore it. I reckon you alerted them, drifty!

[David McKinney]

Originally Posted by John Turner

According to the latest issue of Motorsport, this did indeed turn out to be ex David Hepworth, and it was purchased at the auction by his sons who intend to restore it. I reckon you alerted them, drifty!

I'd like to hear from someone other than the Hepworth sons how this car links to their father

[John Turner]

Indeed, David, that's why I used the word 'according'. My time on here has been a real education and taught me never to take anything as read!

[Ted Walker]

David.I saw D Hepworth in his Cooper Chevy when I was in short trousers and its the same car.Dont know about the "ex Brabham" bit though ?????

[jamesholland]

Originally Posted by Ted Walker

Dont know about the "ex Brabham" bit though ?????

Seems there's an awful lot of those around

[Morley Faulkner]

Hi,
I picked this thread up by accident and feel that although it is 2 years old I must add my bit.
My friend and I raced V8 engined single seaters in the 60,s.
I had purchased the ex Rob Walker/ Stirling Moss F1/F2 1957 Cooper The one that won the Argentinian GP with a Borgward engine.
I bought the rolling chassis from Dick Soames who had raced it with a 3.5 Buick V8. Unfortunately he had thrown a rod and pushed the cam shaft up through the centre of the block, whilst competing in the Martini Trophy meeting at Silverstone. I fitted a small block Chev and Ersa g/box into this chassis. Plenty of room no need for major surgery on chassis.
I left the UK in 1967 and left the car in storage until 1973. I then sold it to Jeremy Bowan. It has now been restored to its former glory with a Climax engine and is owned by Rupert Keaton? (of the cross channel ferries).
My friend ran the ex Mike Hailwood Lotus 24 with the Ford V8. We purchased the ex Natelie Goodwin Bedford transporter and did our thing. The lousy weather that year (we did 19 races and it rain at 12 no fun on 6" tyres) We decide to quit and left for South Africa. I now live in NZ and have done since 1977.
I remember well Chris Summers as my friend Bob Walton and I used to go round to his mechanics barn to have a chat and get much needed help.
Chris's tipple was cider in large quantities if I remember.
I was 23 at the time and working as a competition mechanic at Standard-Triumph when I decided to shoehorn the Chev into the Copper. It did not take to long and it could not have cost a grate deal as I did not have any money to spare. Tyres were always second hand green spots. But we did it for fun, and boy did we have some fun.
John Axon was another Formula Libre competitor with a well prepared car. I can not remember what breed.

[jamesholland]

It's always interesting to hear first hand experiences, especially when they fill in gaps of car histories.

I would respectfully suggest that Moss's Argentine win was in a Cooper Climax and not a Cooper Borgward.

Also Rupert Keegan is the name of the chap you are thinking of. His father Mike ran British Air Ferries.

[allenbrown]

Moss did drive a Cooper-Borgward in 1959, a '57 or maybe '58 car (or maybe both) for the Walker team and also a '59 Cooper-Borgward for BRP in South Africa at the start of 1960. The Walker '57 could have been the Argentina winning car ... maybe.

Mike Eyre had a Cooper-Buick on the circuits and I know there were one or two Cooper-Buicks in sprints and hillclimbs. I don't recall Dick Soames having one - do you remember what year you would have bought it from him?

Was Bob Walton the friend you mention? He ran a Lotus24-Ford V8 in 1966.

[Morley Faulkner]

Hi Allen,

You are correct about the engines. In Argentina they ran the same car in both F1 & F2 races swopping the engines over.
My Mate Bob Walton bought his Lotus 24 in 65/66 and slotted the Ford V8 into it. He worked in the Rootes Experimental Dept so had access to Ford V8's. He needed it as at his first outing it threw a rod. I think Bob sold his Lotus to Peter Hawtin. Bob then bought the prototype Sunbeam Tiger LHD. converted it to RHD. We took this car with us to SA. I lost contact with Bob as he went onto J'burg. I believe he destroyed the engine as it ran out of oil ie; Castrol 'R' and he topped up with a mineral oil.
Dick Soames, all I can remember, is I think he lived around Solihull. I do remember that the door to his garage had a sign 'Pits' on it.
V8's were hard to come by in those days and I wanted a Chev. So I went to Brandon Speedway to see the stock car racing and met up with the reigning UK champ Joe Pratt. He ran a chev engined car with a Rolls-Royce Radiator on it. Joe was great invited me to his home and I bartered him a set of disc brakes for his wife's new Triumph Herald for an engine from a Bel-Air. My gearbox I bought in bits in a tea chest. After scratching my head for a couple of weeks I took it to Jack Knight to sort out. At the time I was a mechanic in the Standard_Triumph Comps dept. and I took Roy Fidlers rally car down to pick it up and got reported by some old coot of a judge for out braking him into a right hander. A sevre reprimand from Boss Ray Henderson. Despite all predictions of trouble with the ERSA it never missed a beat. I did run both engine and gearbox on Castrol 'R. Also my engine was bog standard so it was never under to much stress. I got the guys at Lockheed to build me a 10" twin plate clutch. The radiator came from a Triumph 2000. It was adequet, the problem with cooling was the Chev water pump, not man enough for the job. John, Chris Summers Mechanic fitted a marine Jabsco pump that worked well. I stuck with the Chev pump as no funds for anything else, also the Jabsco took abit of shoe horning into chassis and I just wanted to go racing.
Its been a good exercise writting all this down as it has triggered the memory. I do not talk much about the old Formula Libre days down here in NZ as nobody is really interested, so the memories fade.
If I can be of any further assistance, and keep the thread going, I will be only to happy to do so.

[David McKinney]

It would have been helpful if reports in the 1960s had been more specific!
The Dick Soames car is supposed to have been the ex-Jackie Epstein and Mike Eyre T43-Buick, which in turn was reputedly ex-Geoff Richardson with Alta engine. Except that the so-called Richardson Cooper-Connaught was supposed to have been a T51, and went to South Africa in 1961. So maybe the link between Richardson and the Epstein-Eyre team should be ignored...
The car owned by Jeremy Keegan (Rupert's brother) also raced as a T51 when it appeared in historic events in the 1990s, which would make it too new to have done much racing in Argentina in 1958. It has been campaigned more recently by Adrian van der Kroft

[allenbrown]

I thought there were two Richardson Cooper-Altas, firstly the ex-Walker car built for the BRM engine early 1959 that appeared with Richardson and Alta at the 1959 Gold Cup meeting and later went to South Africa and, secondly, a car that was more T43-ish and was raced in 1960 and 1961. Or were these the same car?

The car that came back from SA was identified by the Walker mods (according to Doug's Cooper Cars) but I don't know if it's been proven that it was an Alta car in between. So could the 1960/61 "Cooper-Connaught" be the Epstein car?

Allen

[David McKinney]

I've never thought it likely that Richardson would race a T51 one year, then a T43 later, though not impossible I suppose.
I'm pretty sure the Eyre/Soames/Faulkner/Keegan car was (is) a T43.
In summary, what we seem to have is (i) an ex-Walker car, though not the Argentine winner, going to E/S/F/K, and (ii) another ex-Walker car, the one-time BRM, going to South Africa (and back for Peter Hannen)
What I don't know is whether either or both were with Richardson in between