[Rules] Future Rule Changes

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Adam43

What they did was get working on with the new engine regs before anyone else. They were prepared.
Ferrari did as much “lobbying”. One thing they got was to make it a V6 rather than a 4 cylinder.

It must be remembered that Mercedes did have a running start because they had been working on road going versions and concepts some time before the new PU format was eventually endorsed.

They then transferred some of those engineers and technicians from the road going divisions (both car and trucks) to the racing engine team.

Meanwhile, please do not ignore the fact that Renault had been heavily lobbying the FIA saying in essence that the new PU had to be road relevant, and demanding that it be based on a 4 pot ICE.

However, Ferrari won that particular argument and got the V6.

So, the reality is that all three manufacturers, who just so happened to be the only then current PU suppliers, had some influence over how the regulations were formulated. It is unfair to claim that it was only Mercedes, who, by the way, were not even sure whether the main board of directors of Daimler Benz would give the F1 team the green light to continue after the new regs. came into force. It was only after they had guaranteed the board that the new PU would be far more fuel efficient that the go ahead was given.

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

So, the reality is that all three manufacturers, who just so happened to be the only then current PU suppliers, had some influence over how the regulations were formulated. It is unfair to claim that it was only Mercedes, who, by the way, were not even sure whether the main board of directors of Daimler Benz would give the F1 team the green light to continue after the new regs. came into force. It was only after they had guaranteed the board that the new PU would be far more fuel efficient that the go ahead was given.

But, but, but.. wait a minute... the truth doesn't really suit the agenda being pushed here.

Thankfully, cancer is NOT contagious.

[F1Guy]

Images of the proposed 2021 cars from the media presentation.




Hmmm.. back to the future?? Have a look just above the nosecone.

Looks good. Would look even better without that stupid appendage surrounding the cockpit!





edit: F1.com link: https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...W8qUG0S8k.html

[Akrapovic]

Overall I like it. The nose up to the cockpit is a significant improvement. No more odd nub on the nose, no more weird flat and sudden step.

The concept is nice, but concepts before stepped noses and nose nubs were also nice - but the teams found more efficient ways to use the rules that ended up being quite ugly.

Still needs a screen in the halo design for small debris deflection as well.

[F1Guy]

Front on, the new halo looks worse than the current one. Hideous!




Looks like a 50's hairstyle that I'm guessing most of the members in here are familiar with.

[Akrapovic]

Why are the cars being rendered onto Daytona? Going...backwards?

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Why are the cars being rendered onto Daytona? Going...backwards?

Maybe that's the big announcement due to come about another GP in the US?

Yeah, it's weird. Meanwhile Maurizio Arrivabene finds the concept somewhat underwhelming: "looks like an old ChampCar"

When you look at this image the Ferrari guys kinda have a point:

I don't believe that what finally hits the track in 2021 will look like these renderings but hey, they're a starting point. Like I said earlier, to me they look like an Indycar and an FE had a dirty weekend together and this was the result.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Maybe that's the big announcement due to come about another GP in the US?

Yeah, it's weird. Meanwhile Maurizio Arrivabene finds the concept somewhat underwhelming: "looks like an old ChampCar"

When you look at this image the Ferrari guys kinda have a point:

I don't believe that what finally hits the track in 2021 will look like these renderings but hey, they're a starting point. Like I said earlier, to me they look like an Indycar and an FE had a dirty weekend together and this was the result.

That's Long Beach 2008. However, I don't see the similarity between the Panoz DP-01 and the new F1 concept, unless Maurizio Arrivabene finds the concept somewhat underwhelming because it makes F1 look more like a spec series.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

That's Long Beach 2008. However, I don't see the similarity between the Panoz DP-01 and the new F1 concept, unless Maurizio Arrivabene finds the concept somewhat underwhelming because it makes F1 look more like a spec series.

I suspect that they're referring to exactly that - the concept with its simpler wings makes the car look more like a spec car. Simpler aero with lack of turning vanes etc (not a bad thing I reckon) harks back to spec style cars too.

[S griffin]

Get rid of the bargeboards and the cars should look great

[chillibowl]

i like it.

i guess if i have one issue it probably is that the Halo is still there. all be it more stylized but i cant help but think how much better these sort of 'futuristic' lines would be improved with the addition of a full canopy.

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Still needs a screen in the halo design for small debris deflection as well.

same. for sure F1 has more important design issues to work out but showcasing something different above the cockpit would have been a nice nod to the notion that head protection will evolve to something both more protective and more aesthetically appealing.

seeing the halo there leaves me with the impression that this is an element that will largely remain unchanged for the foreseeable future.

[chunterer]

the front and rear wings are still enormous?

I thought the plan was to get the front wing width to be in between the front wheels?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by chunterer

the front and rear wings are still enormous?

I thought the plan was to get the front wing width to be in between the front wheels?

Just the idle promises to keep us interested, to be overturned in 2020 with we didn't have time to implement that change, and then forgotten about.

[Adam43]

Lewis says that he really likes the new cars. Actually he said that “this **** is dope af”. Which I understand means it looks good.

He also says that he’d like V12 or V10s back. I presume because Mercedes are well on their way to developing a badass V10. I think I’m getting there with the lingo.

[Peter Mallett]

Word.

[F1Guy]

A closer look at one of the 2021 concepts.




Is it me or does the F1 concept released yesterday, look just like the concept that was drawn up by Antonio Paglia just over a year ago HERE? But with a much better solution to the halo?

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Lewis says that he really likes the new cars. Actually he said that “this **** is dope af”. Which I understand means it looks good.

Shortly after he said that, Hamilton said... "Actually, doesn't look great from the front."

And I agree with LH. Looks worse than the current halo.

[insane014]

They can solve cars all they want but tracks remain as big problem as the cars. Old tracks can't serve the current cars and probably won't be able to any justice to new cars. New Tilke tracks are built using spec sheet philosophy and they are bad for overtaking too.

F1 needs to invest into track design science and do some proper research and calculations before they give a mouse into hand of any track designer.

[Akrapovic]

Halo doesn't look good from the front (or side, back, or any other direction), but I think at this point there's no point in complaining about it existing. It's like the tech world moaning about notches and missing headphone jacks on phones - the ship has sailed, we don't need another article stating the obvious. I think it is worth mentioning that the halo can do more, but not that it's horrible and ugly still. We've just got to live with that.

Outside of the halo, the front end of the cars looks visibly better. The nose and chassis are much much nicer. All these added extra bodyparts won't happen as they always make racing worse, but the overall shape is a nicer one - less steps, angles and weird nubs to satisfy badly written rules. Certainly the concept shown at Daytona with the 3 cars isn't too bad at all.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by insane014

They can solve cars all they want but tracks remain as big problem as the cars. Old tracks can't serve the current cars and probably won't be able to any justice to new cars. New Tilke tracks are built using spec sheet philosophy and they are bad for overtaking too.

F1 needs to invest into track design science and do some proper research and calculations before they give a mouse into hand of any track designer.

If old tracks are bad for overtaking and new tracks are bad for overtaking, but overtaking happens in every series other than F1, are the tracks really the problem? I'll watch WEC, ELMS, Blancpain etc from all these tracks and the racing is amazing. Doesn't that suggest the tracks are the problem?

Also, the tracks have to be used by every series. Why adjust the tracks to fit one specific series? Ruin the fun for everyone else to satisfy F1? Seems a bit mad really.

Fix the cars. Stop breaking the tracks.

[EffectiveSprinkles]

He does have a point though in that the trend to make modern tracks use only sharp edges and almost no flowing corners has not helped at all. Abu Dhabi is the worst offender, dreadful track in all aspects. China's track on the other hand works quite well, it has a lot fewer sharp edged corners and it's a track where overtaking can happen. It's not just Tilke's fault either. Besides that it seems to be almost impossible to predict, who can look at a track like Barcelona and a priori decide that it's impossible to overtake on it?

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Meanwhile Maurizio Arrivabene finds the concept somewhat underwhelming: "looks like an old ChampCar"

When you look at this image the Ferrari guys kinda have a point:

????

The Champcar looks far, far better (and sounds far, far better) too!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

????

The Champcar looks far, far better (and sounds far, far better) too!

The Panoz DP-01 was an excellent car. Shame IndyCar didn't use it instead of continuing with the Dullara, when Champ Car and IndyCar merged 10 years ago.

[Akrapovic]

To be honest, the DP01 was an ok car, but not good. It's only good looking back. It had numerous safety improvements, but it was expensive, broke easily and a lot of the features that were meant to be key didn't work properly. The car it replaced, the Lola, was a phenomenal car. Lola really should've been given the contract for the 2007 car.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

To be honest, the DP01 was an ok car, but not good. It's only good looking back. It had numerous safety improvements, but it was expensive, broke easily and a lot of the features that were meant to be key didn't work properly. The car it replaced, the Lola, was a phenomenal car. Lola really should've been given the contract for the 2007 car.

The DP-01 only raced for one season and therefore never had the chance to undergo a development programme. The problem with the Lola, is that by 2006, it was getting long in the tooth, it effectively had the same chassis that had been raced since 2002. The DP-01, on the other hand was a new development, producing more downforce from the floor than the Lola, putting less dependency on the front and rear wings.