Is the OWRS Continuation Good or Bad for the IRL?

[BootsOntheSide]

Please be careful on this thread, I don't want to incite a row, I want some structured discussion if possible, ideally from people with opposing views.

The 2004 OWRS season started at Long Beach last weekend, with the 18 car field Paul Gentilozzi promised - although they lost 5 teams and only gained one, with the teams ran by the three owners each running an extra car. Newcomers to the series included AJ Allmendinger, Justin Wilson and young Nelson Phillippe.

How does this affect the IRL? Has it weakened the championship's field in any way? Or perhaps does it continue the situation of public confusion over 'Indy'-style racing, and which drivers are in which races? Does its increasing lack of ovals, races overseas and few US drivers mean that it's no longer a direct competitor?

On the other hand, perhaps it provides competition for the series, especially once road racing starts in 2005, allows mroe people to make a living doing what they love, and simply means that twice as much racing is on TV?

[Testure]

I don't think it makes a blind bit of difference any more, because my impression is that there are no more casual open-wheel racing fans left in the US. Some interesting posts have been written by one forum member on this topic, including one in particular that sums up my observations during my time in the US.

The remaining Indy Car and Champ Car fans seem to be pretty fond of their chosen series. This has been discussed here a number of times and I believe the majority opinion was that only a minority (sizable in percentage term, yes) of Champ Car fans would become interested in Indy Car in the event of Champ Car dying. Vice versa probably holds too. Additionally, the percentage of US drivers in Indy Car would plummet further, given the talent that would then be available to team owners. I don't think that that's what Indy Car fans really want.

[climb]

For this year it's positive, cos IRL hadn't the possibility of taking over CC major road courses.
Then, if OWRS don't survive next year, for TG and IRL it's gonna be good.

[climb]

... (double post)...

[Kicking-back]

Alternatively, is the IRL good or bad for the OWRS?

If one of the series had to disappear, I'd rather it was IRL.

[3state]

I think in many ways it's gone beyond this line of questioning. It may have once been the case that the existence of the IRL was detrimental to Champcars, and that by its mere existence, Champcars inhibited the opportunity for the nascent IRL to grow and expand, although it has still managed to do both over the years.

The fact is that the bickering and the past confusion has as Testure pointed out, has resulted in the departure of casual open-wheel racing fans in the US. People simply don't care about Open-wheelers anymore. One has to also factor into the equation something beyond the control of the IRL and Champcar - that is the rise and rise of NASCAR. The casual race fan has turned their attention to the the good 'ole boys in their lumbering tin-tops. I'm not an American but I suspect that NASCAR strikes a cord with the average Joe there in a way that Open-wheelers do not. Open-wheelers are perceived as a 'European' and a somewhat pernicious foreign form of motorsport.
NASCAR on the other hand, reflects the average American's love of huge evidently powerful cars. Open-wheelers are conquently harder to relate to although I suspect with teriary educated uraban and urbane young the interest would lie in Open-wheelers. (please correct me if I'm wrong as I an an Australian speaking on this matter).

At some point and sooner rather than later, there will need to be one open-wheel series in the USA. Yet, I still doubt that given the damage and the strength of NASCAR even that will make much of a difference. The point is somewhat irrelevent nowadays.

[Snrub]

How about somewhat negative? The two series clearly impact each other, but I don't think it's absolutely massive. IRL has the money right now so if they stopped CART would benifit more than the other way around.

[rush1]

CART Has lost most of its punch. Its more like an annoying mosquito flying around your head. The sponsors have gone the big name owners have left. The races in America have gone from CBS to spike, an obscure cable outlet. Only a couple of teams would have the resources to compete in the IRL Indy Car World Series.

Just think, from now until the start of the Indy 500 ABC and ESPN will have 30 hours of IRL coverage.

CART is so marginalized it really doesn't matter. When the IRL adds road races next year it should be obsolete.

[Testure]

Originally posted by rush1
CART is so marginalized it really doesn't matter.

Whatever the reasons, there seems to be a common opinion around that, these days, Champ Car's existence doesn't particularly affect Indy Car. So then the question becomes - why isn't Indy Car popular? Why have Indy 500 ratings been dropping since the mid-80's? Granted I'm only 26, but as long as I can remember, NASCAR has been the biggest and most popular racing series in the US. There doesn't seem to be any real ambition in Indy Car or Champ Car to change that, but merely to fight over the remaining couple of million open-wheel fans.

[Testure]

I think I should stop pointing these type of things, I'm just making myself depressed

[mountainstar]

We've just gone back to the old F5000/USAC situation of the 1970's

[Tim Northcutt]

Very negative....an ever-smaller ppol of sponsors & $$$ is being split two ways....

One Series is needed....

I won't argue which one....that's like throwing a lit match onto gasoline....

But my bet would be on the survival of the IRL....only because TG has too much at stake to let it die or go away...and he has revenue sources from the TV deal and ticket sales to the NASCAR & F-1 events that he can pump back into the Series....

OWRS doesn't have those kinds of resources to assist their efforts...

[gttouring]

I don't understand really why the merger couldn't happen or why Indy could just take all the road courses, and now that magnificent Champcars are back, i don't get why other manufacturers don't see it as such a Kick A series.. the split is bad for all. but the continuation of CC won't affect IRL the damage was done on both and IRL is pulling ahead.

[GP Racer]

I have to agree with Rush1 on this.

CC has been marginalized to the point that it hardly matters to most in the racing world, beyond a few hard-core Canadian and Mexican fans. Here in the US, nobody is watching, and nobody cares. I personally would have liked to see CC bow out gracefully after 03, so we could ALL start re-building this sport, but unfortunately, there going to take this down to the bitter and ugly end. In the meantime, open wheel will lose a few more fans, sponsors and most importantly, DRIVERS, to NASCAR.

Testure, you bring up a good point, about the lack of ambition on anyones part to bring IndyCars back to its glory days. Ambition is definetely missing! There was a time when open wheel racing here was huge and dwarfed NASCAR, so why, when, and how did we stop caring, and how and what are we doing to get it back!? Does anyone have that answer, and does anyone have a plan!??

All we can hope for, is that NASCAR over-exposes themselves, which I think they are getting close to doing, and people get tired of seeing them 24/7. Maybe then they'll start looking for something different. It may be our only hope...

[Snrub]

Nobody watches or cares about the IRL in the US either. The IRL has nothing to boast about in that catagory. What the IRL has to boast about is it has the power of some higher caliber broadcasts, more money being thrown around and one hugely succcessful race. Granted, Texas seems to be a genuine development. In terms of fan base neither series would substantially better than the other if both had an identicle major broadcast eg. ABC. Sure you can boast about the Indy 500, but where are those fans the rest of the year? There's no way one can critisize CART's success in Mexico, Canada, Austraila without seeing some parity to Indy.

In terms of racing quality CART really suffered in the first half of 2003 and got much better in the second half. Long Beach was if anything a regression from where 2003 ended. The IRL has been steadily improving. I've watched the last two races and there is really nothing to critisize. Could it be better still? Sure. Is it up to the ultra-high standards of CART from a few years ago? No.

I don't see a lack of ambition anywhere. What evidence do we have on that front? TG attempted to destroy his enemies and claim some hugely successful races for the IRL. That's pretty ambitious.

[GP Racer]

Originally posted by Snrub
Nobody watches or cares about the IRL in the US either. The IRL has nothing to boast about in that catagory.

I think thats beginning to change though.

The momentum really seems to be with the IRL right now. Many race fans, drivers, reporters, and sponsors, are giving the IRL a second look. Less and less people, appear to be dismissing this series any longer. Its become a bonified championship, and a seat is sought after by drivers from around the world. The international racing community now gives the series some respect also.

This could be because CC is in such bad shape too. People are looking for some stability, and the IRL is offering more of that now. This forum has grown to, with disenchanted CC fans, who have tired of the fight. Hopefully all of this will translate into growing this fan base and drumming up some interest here at home.

Hey, even your here every once in awhile now! That says alot!

[oily oaf]

The 2 series must merge and pool their resources and expertise. Let's have 1 series predominately oval with a couple of street and road races thrown into the mix. Only then can the might of the tin tops be challenged.

[Testure]

Originally posted by Snrub
I don't see a lack of ambition anywhere. What evidence do we have on that front? TG attempted to destroy his enemies and claim some hugely successful races for the IRL. That's pretty ambitious.

That's not ambition. That's a half-baked desire to turn the IRL into what CART was. 1995/96 has been and gone, but TG seems to still be fighting the same battle to get onto the CART board of directors. Ambition would be a series that appealed to the ordinary Joe of US motorsports, that was accessible, that young guys from all over the US would aspire to, with budgets that didn't give you a nose-bleed just thinking about running a car.

No, I don't see any real ambition. I mean, at least Champ Car seems to be trying something different (whether or not they fall flat on their faces and lose a fortune).

[mountainstar]

Originally posted by GP Racer


The momentum really seems to be with the IRL right now. Many race fans, drivers, reporters, and sponsors, are giving the IRL a second look. Less and less people, appear to be dismissing this series any longer. Its become a bonified championship, and a seat is sought after by drivers from around the world. The international racing community now gives the series some respect also.

You always rattle off this same statement above, stating it as if it's fact, yet it is your opinion. The tv ratings and fan attendence are at their lowest point since the irl began in 1996. And they keep getting lower. Indy 500 tickets used to be nearly impossible to get, now you can buy blocks of 100's of seats.:confused:

[Down F0rce]

ESPN reported that the Toyota Indy 300 was the highest-rated IRL race to date, so I'm not sure where your getting that from?

[mountainstar]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Down F0rce
ESPN reported that the Toyota Indy 300 was the highest-rated IRL race to date, so I'm not sure where your getting that from? [/QUOTE

Far from it, pull the figures up and look.

[mountainstar]

The rating for the 2003 race was 1.8, the 2004 race was 0.9. What they probably meant was that that race was the highest rated irl race to be shown on espn.

[GP Racer]

Originally posted by mountainstar
You always rattle off this same statement above, stating it as if it's fact, yet it is your opinion. The tv ratings and fan attendence are at their lowest point since the irl began in 1996. And they keep getting lower. Indy 500 tickets used to be nearly impossible to get, now you can buy blocks of 100's of seats.:confused:

I fail to see where I "rattled off" anything about TV ratings or attendance in my post. :confused:

You need to re-read my post, and you'll see that I said "I think things are beginning to change"(for the better) I intentionally use terms such as, "I think", "seems to be", "hopefully" , to show that this is IMHO only.

[Testure]

According to http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto...dustry/10775/:

Speaking of ratings, last weekend's open wheel numbers were pathetic -- just like the moronic reports from Texas Motor Speedway during the IRL race. The IRL race in Japan on ESPN last Friday night drew a 0.1 while Champ Car's debut on SPIKE last Sunday had a 0.2

Would someoe here be kind enought to let me know what exactly those numbers mean? It's a percentage, right? Of what, though? Number of televisions? Households? People with that station? Why don't they just publish the number of televisions that were tuned in?

[Tim Northcutt]

There ae two things that these measure:

One is called a "Rating"...it is based on the "Number of sets tuned in to watch a program vs. the total number of TV sets that have access to that channel"

The other is called a "Share" ....it is based on the "Number of sets tuned in to watch a proram vs. the total numbe of sets that are also "turned on" that could access that channel, but may be watching something else...."

The numbers posted above are "rating" numbers...