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Old 18 Jun 2019, 14:40 (Ref:3912673)   #1
Mike Bell
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Historic Single Seaters- recession proof?

The following was posted by Mike Crow on the Silverstone Classic thread recently. Made me think- makes a lot of sense IMO....

"Single seater grids seem to get stronger and stronger whilst closed wheel grids are struggling. Am I naive in thinking that single seaters are generally more original and less subject to development than newly built, hot rod modified and downright illegal GTs, sports and saloons. Perhaps people are finally getting fed up with competing with their cheque books rather than their skills. U2TC at Truxton being an example. I was impressed with how pleasantly lacking in glitz the HF2 paddock at Brands was. Just a few guys with spanners and the cars under an awning but a huge entry."


Of course, we may not be in a Historic Racing 'recession', but falling grid sizes in certain categories must be of concern?
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Old 19 Jun 2019, 08:45 (Ref:3912823)   #2
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The following was posted by Mike Crow on the Silverstone Classic thread recently. Made me think- makes a lot of sense IMO....

"Single seater grids seem to get stronger and stronger whilst closed wheel grids are struggling. Am I naive in thinking that single seaters are generally more original and less subject to development than newly built, hot rod modified and downright illegal GTs, sports and saloons. Perhaps people are finally getting fed up with competing with their cheque books rather than their skills. U2TC at Truxton being an example. I was impressed with how pleasantly lacking in glitz the HF2 paddock at Brands was. Just a few guys with spanners and the cars under an awning but a huge entry."


Of course, we may not be in a Historic Racing 'recession', but falling grid sizes in certain categories must be of concern?
Mike,

I think the big thing is that today and winning in GT or TC is either you have a 289 engined car with some very tricky stuff in there or possibly a Jaguar run as a works car or maybe a specific engine builder Twin Cam or Alfa engined car. It is governed today by whom can get these and it has caused a true lack of diversity but this also originates from the lack of controls having been done for a certain period.

Only and very recently did we see a number of 289s car disqualified, still they can compete in others series where nothing is being checked, the one that controls has the biggest grid around Europe on average and it's still growing.

On the other hand, FF1600 is on the spot in terms of quality and racing if you consider costs, Formula 2 is the new Formula 1 with performance nearly as close as the bigger cars but with simpler designs and engines that are cheaper to run but not easier to drive I would think in the end...!

Still, on the long terms we will see how it goes as history of historic racing has already proven, when the big boys come to play into such categories and start the development and throwing the money, in the end it has the effect of killing it.

I believe this will all be about control, in the end that is the purpose of why regulations are made and why they should be enforced, keep it fair and square isn't it? And look at FF1600 and why it's always been succesful? Nobody has left it out of control.

Last edited by Duddha; 19 Jun 2019 at 09:03.
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Old 19 Jun 2019, 11:53 (Ref:3912857)   #3
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Still, on the long terms we will see how it goes as history of historic racing has already proven, when the big boys come to play into such categories and start the development and throwing the money, in the end it has the effect of killing it.

I believe this will all be about control, in the end that is the purpose of why regulations are made and why they should be enforced, keep it fair and square isn't it? And look at FF1600 and why it's always been succesful? Nobody has left it out of control.

FF1600, Formula Junior, FF2000, HF3, HF2, HF1, F5000 and hopefully soon, Formula Atlantic- all original cars in well controlled series and championships. No replicas, no continuations..... (Well, AFAIK!) Let's hope it stays like that.
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Old 19 Jun 2019, 14:30 (Ref:3912886)   #4
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FF1600, Formula Junior, FF2000, HF3, HF2, HF1, F5000 and hopefully soon, Formula Atlantic- all original cars in well controlled series and championships. No replicas, no continuations..... (Well, AFAIK!) Let's hope it stays like that.
No replicas, no continuations?! Seriously?!

I can tell you quite a lot on that at all levels, there may be fewer but I would say the intelligent scam here is that those were justified in the HVIFs days
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Old 19 Jun 2019, 15:02 (Ref:3912901)   #5
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Simon Hadfield should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridSimon Hadfield should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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FF1600, Formula Junior, FF2000, HF3, HF2, HF1, F5000 and hopefully soon, Formula Atlantic- all original cars in well controlled series and championships. No replicas, no continuations..... (Well, AFAIK!) Let's hope it stays like that.




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Old 19 Jun 2019, 15:30 (Ref:3912904)   #6
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Allthough Simon has overdone it on the smilies slightly, I completely agree.
There are quite a few replicas in those formulas..... even in the those that specifically dont allow them.

I agree with Louis that the more blatant cases go back to the HVIF period and its misguided ideas.

There is also a development race on, more in some Formulas, less so in others.

my three bits:


Back to the orginal thread :

What on earth is guaranteed recession proof ?

RuE
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Old 19 Jun 2019, 16:40 (Ref:3912926)   #7
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Glad I made you laugh, guys!
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Old 24 Jun 2019, 17:01 (Ref:3913979)   #8
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Originally Posted by Rudernst View Post
Allthough Simon has overdone it on the smilies slightly, I completely agree.
There are quite a few replicas in those formulas..... even in the those that specifically dont allow them.

I agree with Louis that the more blatant cases go back to the HVIF period and its misguided ideas.

There is also a development race on, more in some Formulas, less so in others.

my three bits:


Back to the orginal thread :

What on earth is guaranteed recession proof ?

RuE
Of course the difference between an original car "restored" with new chassis, bodywork, suspension etc and one where there was "very little left" of the original is a matter of personal opinion.

But I think the question isn't about the non-sensical term recession proof, it is more a case of what cars haven't seen over hyped prices.

Single seaters have always tended to be less valuable than equivalent sports cars and while the prices of many sports cars have increased dramatically most types of single seater have remained more realistic.
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