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Old 19 Jun 2019, 10:17 (Ref:3912840)   #16
GORDON STREETER
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Originally Posted by Mike Bell View Post








Yes. Despite the regulation in my last post stating overtaking 'strictly prohibited', if a car is lapping slowly due to a problem, it is normally acceptable for the driver to wave other cars past, but the marshals are not really in a position to make that decision?


:
In the case I was referring to, the driver of the car was lapping at his "normal" race speed !
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Old 19 Jun 2019, 11:32 (Ref:3912853)   #17
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Originally Posted by Gerard C View Post
May be you just experienced a lack of mutual understanding at Dijon? On the other french tracks you're allowed to drive with two wheels on the herbs. Explained during the briefing. Do it twice in a row at Dijon and you'll be warned for track limits.
Nothing to do with Dijon, Gerard. Just using a recent race there as one example!

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I know I'm thick, but my understanding is that you're allowed to race again when the green flags are waved after crossing the start/finish line. And no, this doesn't answer you question. And yes, your unanswered question brings others!

You're not thick, Gerard, but maybe misunderstanding my point. In the recent past, one or some organisers would allow you to overtake before crossing the start line, as soon as the green flags were shown around the circuit. What was wrong with that system, which has resulted in what many perceive to be a less satisfactory situation?

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Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER View Post
In the case I was referring to, the driver of the car was lapping at his "normal" race speed !
Which is the problem with races that have a wide disparity in car (and driver) performance. So why not allow overtaking as soon as green flags are shown?
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Old 19 Jun 2019, 15:37 (Ref:3912906)   #18
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Rudernst should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRudernst should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRudernst should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
The problem is that the

"no overtaking before the start finish line" rule at the restart

is usually not enforced
(if one hasnt been passed under yellows and even SC sign beforehand)

so what the exact rules are that get disregarded und go unenforced anyway,
doesnt really matter

RuE
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Old 19 Jun 2019, 16:05 (Ref:3912914)   #19
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Originally Posted by Rudernst View Post
The problem is that the "no overtaking before the start finish line" rule at the restart is usually not enforced

RuE
I’d agree that in the past it hasn’t been, but one European organiser has started to take note, as it is usually fairly obvious from the lap charts! When, as happened at Spa earlier this year, a car jumped up the order 6 places in the lap the SC period was ending, it was easily seen on the sophisticated live timing now available to all......

But we’re still no closer to finding the reason why the rule was adopted!
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Old 19 Jun 2019, 17:24 (Ref:3912932)   #20
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But we’re still no closer to finding the reason why the rule was adopted!
Indeed, Mike, indeed…
I can understand an other point, I was stuck behind an Abarth at Dijon, this car couldn't catch the rather fast SC! You know those days!
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Old 19 Jun 2019, 18:23 (Ref:3912938)   #21
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Indeed, Mike, indeed…
I can understand an other point, I was stuck behind an Abarth at Dijon, this car couldn't catch the rather fast SC! You know those days!
I once broke down in a race at Spa and one of the course cars towed me back on a short rope at about 70mph, that was exciting ! good job I hadn't run out of brakes !
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Old 19 Jun 2019, 18:28 (Ref:3912940)   #22
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Which is the problem with races that have a wide disparity in car (and driver) performance. So why not allow overtaking as soon as green flags are shown?
The bloke "driving" the car in question was on a Sunday afternoon drive and I'm pretty sure I could have lapped him in my Transit tow wagon
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Old 19 Jun 2019, 18:28 (Ref:3912941)   #23
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I remember more than once being on the Endurance pit wall and watching a flatbed go down the hill almost as quick as some cars circulating at the same time!

But we digress....
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Old 19 Jun 2019, 18:37 (Ref:3912945)   #24
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Rather a lot depends on the SC driver. The following field should be bunched up in the same positions they were before the deployment of the SC. Sometimes not so easy when the car at the back of the field is being way to slowly!!
One occasion at Snett we had this. Two laps to get track cleared and another spent trying to get the last car somewhere near the following field. Radioed in saying it was pointless. So lights out and come in. 😂😂
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Old 19 Jun 2019, 19:02 (Ref:3912957)   #25
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Gerard C should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hi Terence! Do you know why this rule was adopted, Snet' or other track?
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Old 19 Jun 2019, 20:43 (Ref:3912971)   #26
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one-two should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I guess the reason the "safety car line" rule has come to dominate the "anywhere you like" rule is that it's easier to monitor and enforce. As Rudolf says, if you don't enforce the rules it doesn't really matter what they are. But many of us have seen rules being enforced more rigorously in recent years. Rather than going through a simultaneous bunch of reports from posts all round the circuit, it must be easier to monitor compliance at one or two specific points?
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Old 20 Jun 2019, 02:47 (Ref:3913002)   #27
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Hi Terence! Do you know why this rule was adopted, Snet' or other track?
Problem is that a lot of CoCs have differing versions of the ruling Gerard.
In effect as soon as the safety car is in the pitlane, the race restarts after the start finish line. That I think, is the general rule, hence the reason for getting(trying) to get everyone into the pre SC intervention. I think this is where the confusion comes in. Back markers are often the cause.
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Old 20 Jun 2019, 05:39 (Ref:3913020)   #28
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I don’t think anyone would disagree that getting all competitors in a neat line behind the SC within a reasonable period of time is almost impossible in many cases. As said before, no one wants to be circulating behind the SC for several minutes after the track has been cleared, because A.N.Other is still half a lap away.....

With info being recorded from the transponders we all have, including sector times as well as complete laps, all the necessary info is in race control without having to rely on Marshals reports. However, the latter is good, as it then requires RC to check the data. Maybe what is lacking sometimes, is the manpower in RC to actually check through the info available?

But if drivers were allowed to overtake as soon as green flags replaced yellows and SC boards around the circuit, then the work load upstairs would be reduced, and the scenario that started the whole thread would be eliminated......

Going back to FCY procedure, can anyone confirm that cars are racing again, wherever they are on the circuit, as soon as green flags are shown? I can’t find any clarification on line!
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Old 20 Jun 2019, 06:04 (Ref:3913022)   #29
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Back to previous comments my feeling is that a SC procedure is better than nothing but not the best from a competitor's point of view. FCY or Code 60 are better and not supposed to change the gap between two cars.

Another question: do you have the same grid depending on if the start is a rolling one or not? As an example if the pole position is on the right for a standing start its moved to the left in case of rolling start. Is it the same in GB?
I won't ask who settled this rule at least in France…
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Old 20 Jun 2019, 09:19 (Ref:3913041)   #30
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........

Going back to FCY procedure, can anyone confirm that cars are racing again, wherever they are on the circuit, as soon as green flags are shown? I can’t find any clarification on line!
Yes, because it's covered by the existing yellow flag rules: racing resumes at the next marshal's post showing a green flag (it's just a very long yellow flag zone).
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