March 772P - 778

[Chris Townsend]

I think that Stu Lawson's car was the ex Dickson March 772-3

Chris

[driftwood]

so its likely he fitted 772P body parts?
would be hard to make the wide tub look like a slim tub though
any fotos anyone of this car
if its narrow tub its gotta be a modified 742/B car

[Chris Townsend]

When the ex Dickson 772 was in Sweden a few years ago, fully and nicely restored, it had with it some [though not a complete set] 772P bodywork, some of which carried the logo of Kim Mather's sponsors...

Chris

[allenbrown]

From when Mather's 772P was rebuilt on a 782 tub? (IIRC - the coffee percolater isn't working so I'm not running all four burners)

[driftwood]

782 tub is different to 712-77b slim tub
783 78b 782 tub has special front bulkhead casting/pressing tub

[allenbrown]

Indeed - so when Mather acquired a 782 tub after Tony Ward (?) crashed his 772P, the 772P bodwork and bits would have been redundant.

[driftwood]

getting confused here now
are u saying a 772P car crashed and was rebuilt around 782 tub?
or do i need to read the thread and wake up and smell the coffee as im mising something here

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by driftwood

getting confused here now
are u saying a 772P car crashed and was rebuilt around 782 tub?
or do i need to read the thread and wake up and smell the coffee as im mising something here

As if we'd make you go to all the effort of reading the thread...

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Mather's 772P was, according to Autosport, rebuilt on/around a "newly-acquired" 782 tub after its accident and was further updated with 79-spec sidepods. It appears to have kept its 772P plate but is it now a 772P or is it a 782? It would be interesting to find out the tub number on that car today.

[driftwood]

So kind!!
yes 782 tub and adding 792 bodywork makes sense that works
772P plate being added would then be irrelevent!
Did Kim have a true 772P car
1 car is still with us ex norman dickenson car
2nd chassis is allegedly in canada so how did he have true 772P car
or was it a 772 !?
any fotos to post anyone -Dan?

[allenbrown]

Dan

Any chance you could find out from Kim what happened to the crashed 772P tub and to the 772P/782? Or have we already asked those questions?

Allen

[Dan Rear]

See what I can do chaps. The story, which I'm pretty confident about, and which I'm sure has been posted before (!!!) is.

Kim bought the ex-Surer 'real' 772P, -U2, from Patsy McG who'd used it in Ireland FAt in 78. It had only one F2 race, the late 77 Donny round. This was the sister car to the original 'real' 772P, that Neve/Ribeiro/Mass/Bruno has used in 77. That car, 772P-U1, went to Norman D for the whole of 78, some AFX, some F2.

Kim bought it jointly, I think, with David Ward (Stein Lager), the plan was for the latter to do some Libre in it for 79, Kim using it for AFX and the odd F2 race. Ward bashed it up in mid-July 79, just after Kim had replaced the troublesome BMW motor (ex-Walter Robertson RS2000 saloon) with a more reliable, and cheaper to run, BDG.

Kim and his team then rebuilt it on an 782 tub, but with 79B-type pods. These in fact came from Dave Price's Unipart F3 team, hence the dark blue colours. First race was Mallory July 79 AFX, still with BDG, he came 4th overall and 1st F2 I think, long time ago now! After that he got his works 792 ride, then the Durex B41 drives, the car being hired to Wilds for a couplke of F2 races. After that, I can't recall OTOH, will ask Kim soon.

[driftwood]

thanks dan
puzzled how the 772P parts fitted to the 78 tub
772P tub is 712/742 unit
although uprights are the same wishbones would not be same connecting point/ angles
can you ask kim if the made new bones to fit the 782 tub
i also think 782 has square tub lower front wbones 772 had round tub

792/B pods will fit 782 tub no problem

fotos needed!!!

[allenbrown]

It's quite likely that very few of the 772P parts would have been usable on the 782 tub but Mather appears to have regarded this as a rebuild of his 772P, not a new car. The magazines at the time used the word 'rebuild' and Dan, having spoken to Kim directly, does too.

It would be very interesting to know where the 782 tub came from and what became of the damaged 772P tub.

[driftwood]

772P U2 is allegedly in canada!
i cannot see how 782 tub makes a 772Pu car rebuild!!
thats like taking a tyrrell 009 and fitting 010 tub may look similar parts may fit( with some cutting fiddling? )
if the car has 782 tub 792 pods its a lot closer to a 78 79 car than 77 model
782 uses 712 fr 722 rear uprights
wishbones might fit unlikely though
rack rads pedals may all have been used and maybe even the nuts n bolts!

I know back then he would not have worried and worked on making the tub and damaged parts into a car to race ASAP

[Dan Rear]

Agreed Drifty, as I put above, it was much more akin, visually at least, to a 79B, than a 782, and definitely nothing like the original 772P. I'll send Kim an email, see what he remembers, probably less than us lot, he's a 'normal' !!!

[driftwood]

can u get fotos of the car of it as a 772PU2 then its mongrel 782/9B
ideally seek suspension underbody fotos
maybe he never took fotos as he is after all "normal"
when i look back i never took fotos of cars under the body but i do today !

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by driftwood

772P U2 is allegedly in canada!

I wonder what it looks like. Does it have a 782 tub in it?

[driftwood]

ive mailed the man to see if he has car still- no response yet
he was going to restore it
i may still have his original email to me about the car and where it came from

[driftwood]

Guys i now have the info needed am i too sexy for my shirt or what!
Another mystery solved
Car is now nearly restored

When Bob bought the car, it was in Vancouver, Bob purchased the car from a fellow (Mark ????) who bought the car from Gord and Ross Bently.
The Bently’s purchased the car from someone (the name escaped me) in Seattle in the early 1980’s as a roller. They then converted it to a sports race car with Mazda power and use the car for endurance racing from about 1985 to 1991.

When the man bought the car from the Bently’s, he intended to use it for enduro’s as well but two things happened, 1) Westwood, the local race track, closed, and 2) When he dismantled the car for rebuild he found the chassis tag, he then did some research and realised what he had. Mark then started restoration but realized he was in way over his head. He lost interest and, through word of mouth, put the car on the market, that’s when Bob bought it.

I believe that Bob has the name of the man from Seattle that brought the car from the UK in the early 1980’s. (I can’t remember) I’ll ask Bob and let you know.

As I understand things, the car went from March to McGarrity, then to Kim Mather, then to ??????.

The guy who had the car in Seattle said he bought it from someone named David ??? but he did not recall the last name. He also wasn’t positive on the year but he thinks it was either 1980 or 1981.

The car now has the narrow 742 style tub but it is not the way it was when the Bently boy’s bought it. Also is not fully sloped like a 712, it’s more like a 732. I’ll send a picture.
Another thing on the 772P
When the Bently’s got the car from Seattle, it had an engine bay or a Ford engine, not the BMW.

The Ford engine bay is shorter than the BMW by a couple of inches.

Also, the rear wing that came with the car matched the drawings that we got from Andy Gilberg and is a F2 style wing, not a F Atlantic wing.

When the Bently’s received the car it had some sort of squared off sidepods scabbed onto it, sort of like a 78B or 79B but not exactly. It looks like they used the center section from the 772P and added the square sides. The car still had the 772P castings at the front of where the curved side panel would have been but there was an adaptor plate riveted to it to adapt to the squared sides of the “updated” tub.

The car also has a 3/16” thick one piece front bulkhead, not a formed sheet one like a 78B or 79B.

There were about a million rivet holes drilled in the original center section, besides the originals to attach the curved sides, there were the ones for the squared tub sides and then the Bently’s added even bigger sides for the sports racer.

I think Bob has some pictures of the thing as delivered from the Bently brothers.

We re-skinned the tub using as much of the original March aluminium as was possible, the main center section and the curved sides are new as are the castings at the front of the curved side panel.

The car has a chassis tag but no evidence that it ever had the warning plate that was on the customers cars (Bob’s 752 had one).

[allenbrown]

Good work Drifty. Who's Bob?

This takes the history back to Seattle in 1980 and 1981 but 772P-U2 was last seen when wrecked in the UK in 1979 and rebuilt on a 782 tub. Let's hope Dan can get Mather to remember what happened to the rebuilt car and also what happened to the damaged 772P tub.

[driftwood]

Bob is a man in a swiming pool with no arms and legs!

I do not believe it was 782 tub fitted as i kept saying parts will not fit

read the mans comments u can see he said it has 742 712 style tub
I think Dans info is in correct ( no offense dan)
Kim sells car in 1980 after he uses 1979 rebuild programme
Maybe Dan can ask Kim who what where when he sold car
an AS adverts?
need under body fotos Dan can u get some?

[allenbrown]

Drifty - pay attention to the next sentence; read it several times slowly and commit it to memory:

Autosport (not Allen or Dan) said that Mather "rebuilt" his 772P with a 782 tub and then fitted 79B sidepods.

There is no point arguing with Dan and I whether this could have happened or whether the suspension would have fitted. All we're doing is quoting Autosport.

[driftwood]

ok i now i move my lips and read very slowly
please accept my humble apologies

[Dan Rear]

No offence taken at all Drifty, you know my knowledge of tubs/underbodies/rivets/bulkheads/formed sheets etc aint perfect.... Btw, whats 3/16" mean !!!

Still waiting to hear from Kim, will phone him next week if he doesn't email me by then

[driftwood]

i would imagine the thickness of the wallet required to run a race car
i guess u could ask the question
whats the difference between ` and "
i guess its 11