What would you do if your car caught fire?

[steve_r]

Put more petrol in it of course!

I couldn't believe my eyes, flames licking around the fuel nozzle area and the refueling team carries on as if everything is normal . Thankfully there was not a huge explosion, or pit lane fire.

Quote from Sauber's official website:
Willy Rampf (Technical Director): "We suffered spark coil problems on both cars this afternoon, Felipe and Jacques each losing power and experiencing small underbonnet fires during their pit stops when there was no airflow over the cars. The temperatures beneath the engine covers were very high. In Felipe's case we changed the coils and he resumed the race after a delay; in Jacques' we think that the fire damaged other components and led to his subsequent retirement. We will check the data to determine the cause when we get back to Hinwil and to find a solution for the next race in Istanbul, which will be even hotter."

Barking mad.

[Menelaos]

I think it's the best way to put out a fire: refuel.

[Kicking-back]

I did think at the time the fuel man was a stark raving idiot

[ss_collins]

You can douse fuel with liquid petrol...

only fuel in vapour form can ignite.

[steve_r]

Presumably vapour comes from liquid petrol...

[Kidzer]

the vapour forms when the liquid heats up and changes state, so presumably when liquid petrol was sent in,it cooled down the rest and prevented it from changing state.

[Dani Filth]

I was kinda shocked when is saw he was still trying to refuel .

[Louis B.]

Originally Posted by Kidzer

the vapour forms when the liquid heats up and changes state, so presumably when liquid petrol was sent in,it cooled down the rest and prevented it from changing state.

Interesting. I will try that tonight and let you know.

[Kicking-back]

If we don't hear from Louis B. again, we'll know what happened.

[Louis B.]

KB:

Is this wishful thinking or do you really care about me...

[Kicking-back]

[Pitstop]

Oooooooooooooooooooo!!! we'd better watch these two folks

[Kidzer]

Righto, good luck Louis B.

Im not sure if it would work with fuel being pumped at pump pressure - but F1 Pumps are high pressure so it could also have the effect of almost 'blowing' out the fire

[Rubinho]

I wouldn't have thought refuelling was the most sensible thing to do but I can't imagine it was too dangerous...

The fire was on components under the bodywork, not internal to the engine and definitely not in the fuel tank. The refuelling hose is clamped tightly shut to the fuel tank inlet it must be so due to the pressure involved (else it would spray fuel all over the place every time they fuelled). There can't have been any way for fuel, liquid or vapour, to get to the flames and ignite under normal circumstances.

The recent pitstop fuel fires (Austria 2003 comes to mind) have been due to the fuel hose not sealing correctly and fuel from there igniting on the exhausts. The presence of a flame in a similar area presents no further risk than hot exhausts. If the engineers were confident there was no problem with the fuel rig then there was no more significant risk of a fire than under any other refuelling situation.

[Knowlesy]

The risk was obviously controlled, although I must admit to being startled at first.

I guess they knew what they were doing. Either they were sure nothing would go wrong or they wanted to incinerate Jacques, one or the other.

[Louis B.]

Knowlesy:

Yawn (it was Felipe)

[Rennen]

I think you'll find the FIA refuelling rig nossle only transfers fuel under pressure when the coupling is complete...and should lock shut instantly it disengages.

Engine fires always remind me of my race mechanicing days (1975) push starting our V8 Touring car in the Silverstone paddock...marshalls stopped pushing as they saw (through the rear window) flames under the bonnet...I yelled "Keeping pushing!"...they obeyed and the four downdraught Webbers sucked all the fire in...and away it went...leaving two black lines and several marshalls rolling head over heels in it's wake...Hahahaha You've gotta be 'Mad' to be involved in Motor Racing to start with!

[Knowlesy]

I thought both cars were on fire? My mistake....

Sorry.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by Rennen

...I yelled "Keeping pushing!"

Did you always talk to people in the past tense rennen?

[Rennen]

Well it was a long time ago...I guess it must have been "keep pushing!"...sorry teacher!

[Snrub]

Controlled risk? "If the car blows up the fire will be contained to us?" I thought it was nuts. If I were Massa I would have gotten out of the car. Rennen is pretty nuts too.

[johnw]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

You can douse fuel with liquid petrol...
only fuel in vapour form can ignite.

Just in case anyone is tempted to test Sam's theory - DON'T

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by knowlesy

I thought both cars were on fire? My mistake....

This is from Sauber's post race press release:

Originally Posted by Willy Rampf

We suffered spark coil problems on both cars this afternoon, Felipe and Jacques each losing power and experiencing small underbonnet fires during their pit stops when there was no airflow over the cars. The temperatures beneath the engine covers were very high. In Felipe's case we changed the coils and he resumed the race after a delay; in Jacques' we think that the fire damaged other components and led to his subsequent retirement.

[Louis B.]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

This is from Sauber's post race press release:

It doesn't mean that they also put the fuel rig in the flaming fuel inlet as they did with Massa. BTW, I would like to hear your thoughts, as car racing driver, on the incident. Personally, I think it was either out of reflex or quite irresponsible for the fuel man to put the fuel rig in despite the flammes.

[Adam43]

Your right it doesn't say that. I thought that it would show the possible source of the confusion.

My thoughts? Well I must admit I haven't had that many on it as I don't know all the facts. I've not watched the full race yet and only just started reading about it! Anyway, seeing as you have asked, I'll have a ponder as I write this post.

Partly it depends on the construction of the nozzle and exactly how it works. Rennen has mentioned this and I suspect it is quite isolated from the outside world until the nozzle is engaged. It could be known that under the situation Sauber had in Hungary that it was safe?

I do respect all for wanting to race on. It is a good attitude to have, but as has been said a potentially risky one. However for the racers spirit I can't fault them.

We take risks all the time, some are more risky than others. At that moment they assessed it was worth the risk. Now I understand that the immediate argument against that is "Worth the risk? they could have been burnt to a crisp"! Well, yes, but the key to worth the risk isn't only the potential outcome, but also the likelihood. Take crossing the road - the potential disaster is death, but that doesn't mean that the risk to cross the road to get to the chemists isn't worth it! They are experienced and knowledgeable and, presumably, at the time considered it to be a low risk choice to go for it.

I will assume that they made a judgement call based on what they know, albeit quickly. On that basis I will applaud them for not wussing out just because of a little bit of a flame However maybe I'll find something out that convinces me that they all had a death wish.