Chevron B19

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Delbert

thank you for the feedback. It is an important topic but it is a shame that so few enter the debate. Again it is unlikely to be wide ranging as there will always be those who seek to profit from such practices.

CER list is out for Paul Ricard and there is a great new addition - the Duckham Special in the hands of a useful Frrnch driver. The rise of 3.0l cars is a bit like a Cold war! still will make for great racing (I hope)

Probably the first time that Olivier has been called a useful driver......
And in the spirit of this thread, I note that Sandy Watson has replaced his B19 with a B36.

[Delbert]

Ah well Pieter I am doing my best for "entente cordial"! Yes Sandy has aquired the car off of Marc devis I believe (at quite a price if rumours are correct)! Although i think his B19 is still in his possession.

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by Delbert

I am interested in this debate as I have been thru the ringer on my B19 with the contributors in here (which i accept is fair analysis). Now i have a new project that requires a new chassis - original is getting on for 40 years old and not a realistic core for a safe racing car. BUT we will take the cast bulkheads and put those in to the new one AND I will keep the old ali shell and hang it on the wall for posterity & will go with the car should i ever sell it.

I would be interested (and somewhat fearful) of your comments.

Only a few weeks to the new season Hurrah!

I personally do not have a problem with a project such as yours, it is an effort to produce a safe racing car with as much original material as possible being re-used, and I suspect a fairly low production run in period and therefore the provenance is of an enhancing feature of the finished re-build, it is for me the complete re-build and subsequent statement this is the car that 'Jack' raced/built that tends to get me rather excited. No matter how one giggles it apart from the magical plate it is not.

[Delbert]

BRM - I know what you mean but some things are difficult to replicate - fuel tanks, battery, fire extinguisher for example can't be as they were so we will do our best to keep to the spirit of the original. As for the "magical plate" that was taken off many years ago when the car was changing hands rather irregularly amongst certain Germans! We know what it should look like and will get one made but it sure as hell isn't the original! That was probably in the chicken coop when the grenade hit it.

[driftwood]

ding a ling a ling some one turn that alarm bell off!!
your either a brave or foolish man to buy car with no plate or signed affadavits of each owner involved in that car
i wont repeat here what was said to me a while ago about the cars in the mans possesion!!

regarding items such as fuel cell belts extinguishers being replaced that is a wear n tear item just like brake pads discs rose joints
of course rebuilding the tub can be done with "better" materials today but its amazing how man cars get rebuilt with nass bolts k nuts that where not even around n period on race cars teflon oil lines etc

[Delbert]

Thank you for your concern but I have plenty of provenance with the vehicle. In this case I would be more concerned if there was a plate! Knowing the history of this car would mean any plate was a fake!
What i can say is that it is difficult to find the right size rivets for the period - thank goodness for the China Rivet Company!

[allenbrown]

Lots of provenance yes, but aren't you concerned that we still can't account for its movements from 1988 to 2006? Or have you made progress on that front?

[Delbert]

All its movements? No, but i have an unbroken ownership trail. I also have some interesting details from period which correspond exactly with the car which I won't be putting on here until the project is complete and the story is written (perhaps by Henk?).

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Delbert

All its movements? No, but i have an unbroken ownership trail. I also have some interesting details from period which correspond exactly with the car which I won't be putting on here until the project is complete and the story is written (perhaps by Henk?).

not by me, but by Wouter, if that is OK too

[allenbrown]

Movement was the wrong way for me to express it. I am confident that your car is exactly what it claims to be but it has always struck me as somewhat odd that it is unseen from 1988 when the previous owner acquired it up to (IIRC) 2003. Given the trade of that previous owner, it does seem a little improbable that it just sat under a dust cover for 15 years.

I am delighted to hear that you are having its history written up (and would be happy to help of course). I would suggest that you take that opportunity to grill the previous owner and clear up what the car was doing for that 15-year period.

[RS250]

Driftwood,
A while ago you asked for information on Frank Aston (exDART B19 etc). I don't know if Frank is still alive (he must be very old by now) but he lived in Shrewsbury and if memory serves me correctly it was his business that was based near Ironbridge.
The B19 was always believed to be the ex- Miles car (with the white band running along the leading edge of the nose - I'm pretty sure the other car lacked this detail) and ran a Racing Services BDA during Franks ownership.
On a further point, I don't know if this helps at all, but a few years ago (late '90's) I almost bought a B23 from Steven Griswold (Italian barn find, in need of total restoration; the car that is....) when he had his premises at Long Buckby, Northants.
Sorry for being long winded, but he also had for sale at that time a very lightly used B19, chassis no.1 also sourced from Italy and with a history of hillclimbing there.
Both were advertised in Autosport at the time. I believe the B23 was bought by the guy who runs SAS Engineering in Peterborough (they cast new blocks for historic engines; FVA's etc and obselete Italian exotica), but I am afraid I have no recollection of what became of the B19.
Hope this helps.

[monzagorrilla]

the B19-1 seems to have 2 car owners 1 in usa 1 in eec/uk
I would assume the car you refer to is the EEC/Uk based car

see ORC.com listing
http://www.oldracingcars.com/chevron/b19/

Chevron B19
B19-71-1 (Chevron Records: 'Tondelli'). To Italian Chevron agent Eric Tondelli. See the Tondelli cars below.

http://www.oldracingcars.com/chevron/b19/#tondelli

Two cars now claim to be chassis "71/1" and both cars can be traced back to an Italian owner. See the Monte Shalett car, owned in 2009 by Jonathan Feiber (US),

http://www.oldracingcars.com/chevron/b19/#shalett

and the Massimo Comelli car,

http://www.oldracingcars.com/chevron/b19/#comelli

[chrisks]

Just been clearing my loft and found the invoice dated 1976 from Opert for the sale of chassis no. 28. I bought this car from the purchaser in 1979. Hope this fills a little hole...

[fangio]

Originally Posted by edsmotors

Sorry I am a little late with this reply and I think Allen has figured it out.
Great Chevron B19 webpage on his website. Yes nr.10A was my 1971 Canon car and in 1972 it was rented out to Theo Kinsbergen in our Dutch Team Radio Veronica. The car was sold in 1973 to Peter Wright.
Maybe the AM nr. was 12? At the time the numbers were not important and it is a long time ago.
My current B19 with a correct early original Chevron plate # 25 and HSCC, RAC and FIA papers, was the C.P. Howarth "unknown 2nd. car" restored by Brian Martin in 1980 sold to and raced by Tony Griffin. Sold to Sid Marler in 1984 and to me in 1989. Raced in Super Sports 1990-1995. Mostly by me but one season 1994 shared with John Burton.
In 1992 and 1993, I was first in 2.0 ltr class both years at Zandvoort and as far as I know not beaten by Fangio, who ever that is.
Car is in USA since 1996 and still actively raced in Historic races.
EdS.

As far as I remember it was the only time I beat you with the B19.........Fangio: alias Hans H.

[peter nash]

Hi Doug Baillie wrecked his lola t212 at ingliston april 75 do you know more on the subject, do you know to contact Douglass Baillie
Regards

[allenbrown]

Hello Peter

I haven't been able to locate Baillie yet but I'm pretty sure I know which one it was. Why do you ask?

Allen

[p261brm]

Have managed at long last to locate, or should say Ted Walker did a photograph of a B19/21 with the first headlight design fitted and required by the FIA for the 1972 WCM series. The two litre series did not require these. The car is Bamfords B19 72 BOAC. I fitted works supplied glass resin naceles under the nose with round lenses, Tony Galland, (Red Rose Team Manager) went one better and made them rectangular.
Photo copyright Ted 'Ferret' Walker

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by p261brm

Have managed at long last to locate, or should say Ted Walker did a photograph of a B19/21 with the first headlight design fitted and required by the FIA for the 1972 WCM series. The two litre series did not require these. The car is Bamfords B19 72 BOAC. I fitted works supplied glass resin naceles under the nose with round lenses, Tony Galland, (Red Rose Team Manager) went one better and made them rectangular.
Photo copyright Ted 'Ferret' Walker

That picture has been on my Chevron B19 page for several years :-)

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

That picture has been on my Chevron B19 page for several years :-)

There you go, look on Alan's site before going to Ted for photo's

[Delbert]

Evening all, I have not been in here for ages & have just been catching up.

The reason for popping back in is that the B19 is undergoing a rebuild (after a very poor performance at Silverstone). Several bits were cracked or broken - not from an accident, just wear and tear.

The more interesting point is that we had the floor off and replaced the bag tanks. 3 of the 4 tanks that came out were all original with dates of 1971 stamped on them. The 4 bag (sill) was 1981 which suggests an accident requiring replacement.

I know this is not the hard evidence Allen looks for but I like to think this is another tick in the box of chassis originality.

Cheers

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Delbert

I know this is not the hard evidence Allen looks for ...

Actually, it's just the sort of thing I find quite convincing. Many bits of racing car are now very well reproduced but (as far as I know) nobody has started producing 1971-dated bag tanks. I also find it very hard to believe that somebody would have reused 1971 bag tanks in a 1980s-built B19.

This is B19-71-9 we're talking about isn't it? If so, I'll add that info to my B19 page.

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by Kojima_KE007

Thanks for the info Jeremy.

Could someone confirm that chassis number 27 was driven by Brian Redman and Mike Hailwood in 1971?

Chassis 27 repatriaterd to UK by Paul Owens, just completed a full restoration by Paul and Vin Malkie, due for crating for return to South Africa Monday 14th October. Original chassis, though some relacement has taken place due to damage rear of the fire bulkhead.

[davyboy]

Chassis 10 put up for sale here in Germany yesterday

[Delbert]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Actually, it's just the sort of thing I find quite convincing. Many bits of racing car are now very well reproduced but (as far as I know) nobody has started producing 1971-dated bag tanks. I also find it very hard to believe that somebody would have reused 1971 bag tanks in a 1980s-built B19.

This is B19-71-9 we're talking about isn't it? If so, I'll add that info to my B19 page.

Allen
I feel somewhat embarrassed for my assumption. I am sorry if I appear rude, that wasn't my intention. I am obviously pleased that you consider it a positive sign.

It does beg the question; Why the need for new fuel cells every 5 years when these have performed well for 40 years?!

I see the later comment of Chassis 10 being for sale..........which 10 would that be?

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by Delbert

It does beg the question; Why the need for new fuel cells every 5 years when these have performed well for 40 years?!

Especially when such tanks in aircraft have much longer life times (30+ years for polyurethane ones) despite being used in a much harsher environment.

On the other hand in the turbo days they only lasted a few months but that might not have been the case if the teams had told the manufacturers what they were putting in the fuel!