Australian GT Future regulations

[nafe!]

I glimpsed a small article in AA today refering to new regs being trialled at Phillip Island ahead of next years championship.

Im just wondering if anyone out there has any knowledge of what is going to be trialed and what we can expect for next year.

As mentioned i only had a brief look but i saw something about timed pitstops..including longer and shorter ones for different teams which appeared to be a handicap system.

If this is an attempt to create artificial racing between the slower and faster teams in the championship its not the kind of direction this series needs. GT needs to be heading down the profesional route.

[Sheep Stations]

Professional? Why?

When will the penny drop with a lot of observers that AGT ( and every other category outside V8SC) is funded/exists/rolls on because of the competitors. It's their sport, glad to read the new management is listening to what they want.

What is unspectacular is the latest and greatest running away from the field, any moves with transparency to improve the racing is to be applauded. Any overseas GT races I've seen where a pit stop is required, they are timed. If it's tweaked here to keep players in the game, sweet.

[Reload]

No longer pays to be the quickest driver in the quickest car ?
If the championship winner was the driver who who handed the title through huge chunks of handicap, how great would the satisfaction and accomplishment really be ?

[Sheep Stations]

Never was about having the fastest toy. If you have a car performance advantage then parity is about putting some sporting 'purity' back into the racing. If you're a good enough driver than you'll overcome the hurdles ( providing the organizers have the balance right).

I'm sorry, is all this new to some people?

[Reload]

Originally Posted by Sheep Stations

Never was about having the fastest toy. If you have a car performance advantage then parity is about putting some sporting 'purity' back into the racing. If you're a good enough driver than you'll overcome the hurdles ( providing the organizers have the balance right).

I'm sorry, is all this new to some people?

It's new to me SS as i thought that "handicapping" was something that the average punter disliked, however i am not "privvy" to the drivers wish list for next years series.
The problem with trying to get the balance right is that the goalposts can be continually moved throughout the season which can cause grief and frustration.
Having said that, i am one of the "average punters" and more knowledgeable people on the subject such as yourself would have your finger on the pulse.

[MitchZ06]

Any chance this 'no cars after 2009' rule will be tossed out?

[cptkablamo]

Yep, as far as I know, that rule is gone next year

[Sheep Stations]

Originally Posted by Reload

It's new to me SS as i thought that "handicapping" was something that the average punter disliked, however i am not "privvy" to the drivers wish list for next years series.
The problem with trying to get the balance right is that the goalposts can be continually moved throughout the season which can cause grief and frustration.
Having said that, i am one of the "average punters" and more knowledgeable people on the subject such as yourself would have your finger on the pulse.

No disrespect intended Reload, it's just always going to involve some parity. We can kid ourselves that AGT ( and some other sports car categories for that matter) want a show for the fans but first things first, it's the owner/drivers sporting outlet. And if you don't control it to some extent then it's who has got the most coin and buys the best mousetrap that will win, every time.

The new management are sure to have learned from the moving goalpost policy of the previous lot so hopefully we'll see a clean and solid set of rules in 2012...having a Lambo, Mosler,Audi, Porsche, Aston, Ferrari etc jostling for position in the last few laps after negating the pitstop and other parity challenges by excellent driving is a far more spectacular proposition than
having some cars/drivers completely knobbled whilst others in equal machinery avoid the tech commissioners gaze altogether.

[cptkablamo]

Parity is the bane of GT racing, it is in every form of professional GT racing. A move to a set of rules that is administered by people who have a lot more cars and a lot more to lose than we do is probably a good thing + there shouldn't be a need to reinvent the wheel. We just need to ensure any rules are applied fairly and consistently.

I'd have to agree that the ideal situation would be no parity. The class structure would have to be looked at and perhaps a PRO, PRO/AM and GENTS structure be adopted. The issue there would be, you'd really need everyone to be in GT3 cars and you'd need decent numbers in each class - meaning you'd need all the GT3 cars in Australia to compete. That would be a nice dream eh...

[ff s conscience]

Originally Posted by Sheep Stations

Professional? Why?

Because it's the only way for a NATIONAL series of GT's to be properly credible. You can do your mickey mouse games in state level racing.

And the newest current cars ARE faster and if they appear NOT to be it makes the series look like a joke.

For sure, allow some freedoms to speed up the slower cars a bit, but there are enough people willing and able to buy the latest and greatest, and we should all applaud and thank them, not humiliate them into defeat and frustration..

Run the second tier cars for their own trophy, and also make them eligible for outright should they do well enough...

but FULL SPEED for the current cars.... running to current parity and regs.

[Sheep Stations]

We are talking about AGT right?...exactly, no, be as vague as you like with a guesstimate... how many blokes are in this market that will buy the latest half million plus exotica, spend the same each year running it and pay some young fire****er to steer it?

Ahh, yeah...that's what I thought. Maybe one or two in Italian rigs.

[inpitlane]

How to fix the mess that is Australian GT Racing.
One: Download FIA European GT3 Championship regulations.
Two: Open in the word processor of your choice
Three: Find word "European"
Four: Replace with "Australian"
Five: Save changes
Six: Distribute to competitors.

BTW Watching Spa 24 on inpitlane.com Porsche, leads Lamborghini and Ferrari. Lead McLaren crashes heavily.
Starting to rain. It is Spa after all.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by inpitlane

How to fix the mess that is Australian GT Racing.
One: Download FIA European GT3 Championship regulations.
Two: Open in the word processor of your choice
Three: Find word "European"
Four: Replace with "Australian"
Five: Save changes
Six: Distribute to competitors.

I wish it was that simple. Mosler would be out though.

That would work if there were enough GT3 cars of the latest spec like in Blanpain and FIA GT3.

Down here with the older cars people would **** and moan about their older cars being at a disadvantage.

[DX20VT]

Originally Posted by ff s conscience

For sure, allow some freedoms to speed up the slower cars a bit, but there are enough people willing and able to buy the latest and greatest, and we should all applaud and thank them, not humiliate them into defeat and frustration...

As with most race series, When the fast get faster, the rest go home.

It it was straight open with no limits and the fastest car won,
you may end up with the 3 guys that can afford a new mosler racing for the win,
and the rest dont even turn up.

[ff s conscience]

Originally Posted by DX20VT

As with most race series, When the fast get faster, the rest go home.

It it was straight open with no limits and the fastest car won,
you may end up with the 3 guys that can afford a new mosler racing for the win,
and the rest dont even turn up.

Ok, firstly, if you run a correctly specced and legal Mosler, you'll be competitive, you may not win for sure.

BUT, NONE are correctly homologated that are here, they're all illegal in some way and faster, so seeing as they chose to buy the bloody cheater things, they can suffer in their jocks or turn up and race, don't give a flying fork either way.

Moslers are for cowards IMO. They bought them 'cos they KNEW they were basically a lopp hole dodger, and they thought they'd win with them. They happen to be difficult to drive at the limit though.... GOOD I say.

Secondly though..... actually there are plenty of people that have current spec, or very near current spec cars, and there are MORE that would buy them if the series was turned into something like the Europe scene.

I'll say again, STATE racing is for homologation bending and game playing.... but the NATIONAL LEVEL series should reflect Australias finest.

[bludvl_x19]

From my simplistic level of thinking, if AusGT started running GT3 regs, wouldn't the people who can afford to race in GT be more likely to buy a GT3 because they have a chance to race the same car in overseas events? it would save having two cars for those who are so inclined?

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by bludvl_x19

From my simplistic level of thinking, if AusGT started running GT3 regs, wouldn't the people who can afford to race in GT be more likely to buy a GT3 because they have a chance to race the same car in overseas events? it would save having two cars for those who are so inclined?

The question is what do you do with the existing cars, the ones that arent GT3-compliant, or have been bastarrdised to fit a set of changeable regulations..?

Previous strategy was to keep them keeping on, which is why 10 year old Dodge Vipers still run in the series...

[DAVID PATERSON]

I think it's sad that people would rather park their older, cheaper, slower cars than race them. So what if you can't afford the latest and greatest car. Newsflash, if 30 cars start the race, 29 of them aren't going to win, deal with it!

Do they not realise that running at the back is a hell of a lot more fun than not running at all?

I also find it ironic that a group of successful businessmen, entrepreneurs, company directors etc. would cry out for parity, when it is really a form of socialism.

[D.R.T.]

Exactly David.

Surely competing on a consistent playing field/ regulations is the biggest concern for competitors.

Surely one would prefer to get beaten by a superior driver/car combination than by being at the whim of changing pit stop times, rev limiters, lead trophies etc?

[nafe!]

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

I think it's sad that people would rather park their older, cheaper, slower cars than race them. So what if you can't afford the latest and greatest car. Newsflash, if 30 cars start the race, 29 of them aren't going to win, deal with it!

Do they not realise that running at the back is a hell of a lot more fun than not running at all?

I also find it ironic that a group of successful businessmen, entrepreneurs, company directors etc. would cry out for parity, when it is really a form of socialism.

They dont even have to run at the back. Give them their own trophy to fight for, Call it something like the Sportsmans cup, make sure they get their own recognition, be it podium presentation, tv focus etc and let them keep running there older cars if they wish but dont bring down the rest of the field just to suit their levels of performance and ability.

Give them the satisfaction of beating their fellow gentleman competitors at a level they can compete at and be part of a bigger overall show that has so much potential to grow.

GT3 Regs from one of the european championships for the outright part of the field should be adopted in my opinion and run the cars according to the specs required. We all know parity is something we cant throw away completely, but at least adopt an overseas model and use it.

Why bring profesionalism to the sport? I believe profesionalism could provide the following.

Give aspiring or current drivers in australia a category that is now internationally recognised with sports car racing becoming a genuine career option.

Give Australian Teams/Drivers a chance to compete on a equal footing with drivers/teams from overseas and also attract those people to our own championship and events such as the B12hr race.

Give the fans who beg for an alternative to V8supercars something to watch and get behind.

Provide better media coverage and exposure and attract a fan base that would then make sponsorship arrangements a much more likely proposition which could in turn aid in the running costs of racing the vehicles.

By Profesionalism i mean the following:

Adopt GT3 Regulations from Europe.

Get rid of the rules regarding seeded drivers.

Get rid of the pre set lap times that competitors must not breach.

Get rid of the limits of cars per make/model.

Get rid of minimum pitstop times except for perhaps in the category that could be created for gentleman drivers/teams

Adopt race formats that are associated with profesional motorsport and steer away from gimicks.

Profesionalism is about the pursuit of excellence.

[GTRMagic]

And have a grid of 4 complying cars, all 997 Porsches...

[D.R.T.]

It should be noted that there is a difference between the category management/ regulations being professional and asking for the teams/drivers to be professional.

[porsche91722]

I like the idea of one pro driver and one gentleman driver in the cars or something along the lines of the pro/am racing that is already in place overseas. All we need here is a few more pros. There is enough young blokes coming up through the ranks, plus a few of the old heads that would put on a good show.
As there seems to be so much money thrown around by the people on the grid, is it beyond the realms of possibility that sports car racing goes its own way, and finds/produces its own TV deal and markets itself away from the existing series and TV arrangements that they have allied themselves with in the past? If the racing quality improves and moves away from a manufactured result, the product is good enough to stand on its own. I suppose that parity in some way, shape or form will always be in racing, but there has to be a few changes.

[nafe!]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

And have a grid of 4 complying cars, all 997 Porsches...

We have G currentT3 cars in country as it is, if the rules for the last 2 years had actually catored for cars that werent already superceeded im sure we would have more of them and are likely to have more in the future now that this has been changed.

If the old cars can be kept competitive by reducing restrictors etc on them then that might be what has to be done. I see no problem with allowing cars like they do now from the early GT3 days in the series, as long as at some point the cars were actually homologated to GT3 standards. Compromise will be needed for as long as it takes to get a larger field of modern cars on the track.

Personally im not a fan of the PRO/AM rules but they are better then the rubbish we have had here.

Id much rather see a team field whoever they want and up the challenge of the series and most likely the spectacle as well.

[cptkablamo]

I think, on the surface, the Blancpain Endurance Series rules would make more sense than GT3 Europe - except for the length of races - as partly explained in my post here

Sportscars always has and always will rely on rich gentlemen races to fill its ranks. They do have to be catered for - but in doing so doesn't have to ruin the show.