[BTCC] BTCC 2018 Rumours & Silly Season

[BLiTZ]

Looks great, better than JAS's TC-R FK8 (the TC-R FK2 was arguably better looking than the BTCC car) shame the skirts have to go on and it looks loads better without.

[touringlegend]

I’d agree on that, the Civic looks great in NGTC spec. Well done Team Dynamics.

[CarsCarsCars]

Looks incredible from the front, but like a dog's dinner from the back.

[CaptRustyNail]

Originally Posted by CarsCarsCars

Looks incredible from the front, but like a dog's dinner from the back.

Tbf the road going version looks like a dogs dinner too... least in black it hides it, sort of! The main reason why i didn't choose it as my car...

[luckn002]

Less than a month until media day...!

[Robshillito1990]

Think the Honda looks good not much difference to the road car in the wider arches as the road car has wide arches anyway just not sure on that spoiler still have to wonder what it was that got the big NO from TOCA was it rear wheel drive or something else?

[RS67]

Originally Posted by Robshillito1990

Think the Honda looks good not much difference to the road car in the wider arches as the road car has wide arches anyway just not sure on that spoiler still have to wonder what it was that got the big NO from TOCA was it rear wheel drive or something else?

The Honda is fwd, so would never be able to run rwd.

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by RS67

The Honda is fwd, so would never be able to run rwd.

True, however Honda were/are toying with the 4WD idea on the latest civic, maybe Dynamics wanted to run in s similar way to Rob Austin's Audi conversion, but based on parts still in development at Honda rather than actually on the current model which may be why it was outlawed

https://www.carkeys.co.uk/news/the-new-2017-honda-civic-type-r-could-get-four-wheel-drive-as-an-option

[RS67]

Originally Posted by btccbloke

True, however Honda were/are toying with the 4WD idea on the latest civic, maybe Dynamics wanted to run in s similar way to Rob Austin's Audi conversion, but based on parts still in development at Honda rather than actually on the current model which may be why it was outlawed

https://www.carkeys.co.uk/news/the-new-2017-honda-civic-type-r-could-get-four-wheel-drive-as-an-option

The Audi had a longitudinal engine though which would have meant a transfer box to run as fwd. I don't believe there is a Toca sanctioned transfer box. The Honda is transverse like the Focus RS, so with no transfer box available, can only run as fwd.

[Craner Curves]

Testing was a waste of time by the looks of it! Whiteout at Castelol.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by btccbloke

True, however Honda were/are toying with the 4WD idea on the latest civic, maybe Dynamics wanted to run in s similar way to Rob Austin's Audi conversion, but based on parts still in development at Honda rather than actually on the current model which may be why it was outlawed

https://www.carkeys.co.uk/news/the-n...e-as-an-option

The Civic in 4wd NGTC form was never a possibility.....

Originally Posted by Robin Marriott

Honda have never built a Civic with a longitudinal engine, which is the only way they’d be able to run one as RWD, much like Rob Austin’s Audis were.

It would have to be built the same as the AMD ‘S3’ or the Merck’s, both of which are available as a 4wd car, with transverse engines.

It’s very clear in the NGTC regulations, the only loophole was exploited by RAR with the A4.

I doubt Dynamics would have misread the rule book that badly leaving them to reengineer the whole car...

Originally Posted by RED55

Ok hopefully we can clear this up so people understand.

The first ngtc technical regs were made really for fwd with the possibility of rwd being added if someone was interested, that someone turned out to be Rob Austin and his Audi A4 . However the A 4 is a longitude set engine and the xtrac people didn't have a suitable fwd transmission for this application so to get the ngtc car concept going it was allowed to be rwd with and xtrac rwd gearbox but the engine position had to be in the road car position which is hanging out front of the front axle centreline.

The fact that ford and Honda making possible 4wd cars becoming ngtc reality can't happen if the engine in the road car is transverse mounted, they can't just change the engine round to make rwd .

[AdrianM]

The confusion about 4WD Civics stems from Mat Neal when the Subaru was launched. He said several times that they might have to develop a RWD one. Whether it was mean tongue in cheek or he hadn't read the rules I don't know but there a lot of people on FB etc who still think it can be done when it patently can't.

[Robin Marriott]

I think it was a snarky comment pointed at the domination of a certain RWD car last year...

[BobJones]

The thing to remember is Matt Neal is he's never up to speed with the rules — that's for the rest of the team to negotiate. At the Autosport show this year Henry Hope-Frost had to inform him of the new rules for 2018. In all likelihood, just a silly quip without seriously looking into it to try and stir things up or play the PR-equalisation game.

I suspect the elements disallowed by TOCA would be the many trick front aero devices on the new Type-R. Especially around the front bumper and that bonnet scoop. Perhaps on the race car they don't actually allow to pass air through.

(the rear bumper design is mostly fake on the road car, some of the front elements are real)

On both far sides of the bumper, left and right, near the fog lamps. On the road car, I believe those slats are functional and feed air over the front wheels, looks like for the race car they aren't.

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

The Civic in 4wd NGTC form was never a possibility.....

No 4wd is not allowed I don't think, I meant "if" Honda were as the article suggested developing a 4wd civic then Dynamics might have tried to do some sort of conversion which Rob did with Sherman, but alas it's not going to happen anyway

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by btccbloke

No 4wd is not allowed I don't think, I meant "if" Honda were as the article suggested developing a 4wd civic then Dynamics might have tried to do some sort of conversion which Rob did with Sherman, but alas it's not going to happen anyway

I meant a RWD Civic in NGTC was still never a possibility.

If Honda did produce a 4wd Civic, Dynamics would have to get Honda to change the engine layout in the production car due to the platform having a transverse engine.

[antnee]

Originally Posted by BobJones

The thing to remember is Matt Neal is he's never up to speed with the rules — that's for the rest of the team to negotiate. At the Autosport show this year Henry Hope-Frost had to inform him of the new rules for 2018. In all likelihood, just a silly quip without seriously looking into it to try and stir things up or play the PR-equalisation game.

I suspect the elements disallowed by TOCA would be the many trick front aero devices on the new Type-R. Especially around the front bumper and that bonnet scoop. Perhaps on the race car they don't actually allow to pass air through.

(the rear bumper design is mostly fake on the road car, some of the front elements are real)

On both far sides of the bumper, left and right, near the fog lamps. On the road car, I believe those slats are functional and feed air over the front wheels, looks like for the race car they aren't.

This is probably the reason - I doubt Mr Gow would be willing to allow active aero components as things can start to spiral out of control then.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by BobJones

I suspect the elements disallowed by TOCA would be the many trick front aero devices on the new Type-R. Especially around the front bumper and that bonnet scoop. Perhaps on the race car they don't actually allow to pass air through.

On both far sides of the bumper, left and right, near the fog lamps. On the road car, I believe those slats are functional and feed air over the front wheels, looks like for the race car they aren't.

There is definitely a difference between the front ends, and the front bumper used in testing appears to have a lot of 'temporary' blanking applied.

If all of the issue was just front aero though - how would that make the build become delayed so much?

[BobJones]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

If all of the issue was just front aero though - how would that make the build become delayed so much?

It wouldn't necessarily. But it does provide you with an excuse...

[Sodemo]

I'd rather they work on lowering the minimum weight requirement than have active aero.

How close to the weight limit are the cars nowadays?

[touring fan01]

why lower the minimum weight? it costs huge amounts of money to do that!
all cars are very close to the minimum

[antnee]

Active aero would have a massive impact on packaging and cooling set ups - assuming that TD/Honda are completing simulations and not just engineering by 'that looks alright', then it could take a while before they have the new design.

[btccbloke]

The big man has spoken:

http://www.motorbaseperformance.co.uk/boss-blog.html

[Robin Marriott]

Well those lines are very clear to read between!

Clarification of the situation without spelling it out.

[btccbloke]

at least that gets rid of the whole "they only have 2 cars" debate , personally I still think the arrival of Chilton may have prompted Mat to be more interested in other opportunities but that's never going to come out in an official Motorbase statement.
Mat isn't really that vocal on any social medias and now hes without a drive and IMHO gone from BTCC we will possibly not hear that side for some time now.


...so now motorbase can get on with announcing Tom Onslow Cole again