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Old 10 Aug 2018, 08:41 (Ref:3842722)   #926
Robin Marriott
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Originally Posted by VIVA GT View Post
I was thinking this too. Certainly without altering the look of the car they couldn't make a significant change to the wheelbase...
You’d hide a fair bit in the arches of the regs allowed, even before it started looking odd I reckon you could easily lose 100mm.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they have done it when moving to the new rear arch design this year... if they were allowed of course.
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Old 10 Aug 2018, 09:46 (Ref:3842733)   #927
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I think Shaun was going to dump Boardman regardless, but Hill was his first choice replacement, and he seems to have gone to great lengths to try and get Hill in the MG (as have Gow and the BRDC). We shall see what happens when the lawyers have finished.
Fascinating stuff. I wonder if we'll ever hear the full story.
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Old 10 Aug 2018, 11:37 (Ref:3842758)   #928
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Unlikely: whatever settlement is reached will be shrouded in non-disclosure agreements.

Maybe the Hills are already working on next year...
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Old 10 Aug 2018, 11:56 (Ref:3842761)   #929
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Fascinating stuff. I wonder if we'll ever hear the full story.
I was thinking about this earlier. whilst im not wanting to dwell on Hill or Jackson etc,
This year we have effectively had Jackson, Hill, Boardman, Price (and arguably Welch/AWE but those circumstances are slightly different) leave teams for one reason or another and in 2 cases at least surprisingly not turn out for another team.

The TBLs were introduced in Nov 2013 (http://www.btcc.net/2013/11/04/toca-...-btcc-licence/), the last driver I can remember appearing for more than 1 team in a championship season was Tom Onslow Cole who drove for Hard, then Motorbase in 2013 - before the TBL was introduced.

Is there some sort of rule or understanding that the TBL cannot be registered to run a driver who has already run or been registered for another team in that year? maybe this was introduced for part of the scaling down to 26 Gow has spoken about
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Old 10 Aug 2018, 12:47 (Ref:3842771)   #930
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I was thinking about this earlier. whilst im not wanting to dwell on Hill or Jackson etc,
This year we have effectively had Jackson, Hill, Boardman, Price (and arguably Welch/AWE but those circumstances are slightly different) leave teams for one reason or another and in 2 cases at least surprisingly not turn out for another team.

The TBLs were introduced in Nov 2013 (http://www.btcc.net/2013/11/04/toca-...-btcc-licence/), the last driver I can remember appearing for more than 1 team in a championship season was Tom Onslow Cole who drove for Hard, then Motorbase in 2013 - before the TBL was introduced.

Is there some sort of rule or understanding that the TBL cannot be registered to run a driver who has already run or been registered for another team in that year? maybe this was introduced for part of the scaling down to 26 Gow has spoken about


What about Cook last season, going from the Maximum Ford to the MG?
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Old 10 Aug 2018, 13:11 (Ref:3842780)   #931
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Good luck to Collard Jr. and Pidgeley but word of warning Ollie, this is Team HARD, a team notorious for chopping and changing their drivers and great to have Geddie back and getting a 2nd chance.
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Old 10 Aug 2018, 13:58 (Ref:3842795)   #932
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What about Cook last season, going from the Maximum Ford to the MG?
Forgot him
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Old 10 Aug 2018, 14:04 (Ref:3842797)   #933
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Originally Posted by Nononsensecapeesh View Post
but word of warning Ollie, this is Team HARD, a team notorious for chopping and changing their drivers
2013 maybe, however:

2016 - Smiley apparently had funding issues and replaced by Caine (Arguably Team Hard's decision)
2016 - Caine replaced by Gilham because of injury (Team Hard not at fault)- Epps and Hill full season
2017 - Burns left out of final round because of injury (Team Hard not at fault) - Epps and Hill full season
2018 - Hill walks for reasons unclear (Not Team Hard's decision as TG was/is desperate to keep him)
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Old 10 Aug 2018, 14:22 (Ref:3842798)   #934
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HARD were notorious for that, which is a big part of why TBLs were introduced in the first place. Since the introduction of TBLs and the limit on driver changes, they haven't able to.
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Old 10 Aug 2018, 14:27 (Ref:3842799)   #935
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2013 maybe, however:

2016 - Smiley apparently had funding issues and replaced by Caine (Arguably Team Hard's decision)
Smiley openly admitted he was struggling to get to grips with the car and felt stepping down was the best option for him at the time. Funding wasn't the primary factor here I believed.

Certainly with Norlin he has performed much better in the Cruze and Civic.
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Old 10 Aug 2018, 14:32 (Ref:3842800)   #936
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Craner Curves should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCraner Curves should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCraner Curves should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCraner Curves should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I make it at least 22 drivers for Hard since 2012.....That's insane. Almost a respectable size of grid for some series.
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Old 10 Aug 2018, 15:36 (Ref:3842810)   #937
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I make it at least 22 drivers for Hard since 2012.....That's insane. Almost a respectable size of grid for some series.
Nonsense stat. Why keep refering to 2012 and 2013 when TBL rules were not in place.
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Old 10 Aug 2018, 16:21 (Ref:3842818)   #938
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Nonsense stat. Why keep refering to 2012 and 2013 when TBL rules were not in place.
It's just a stat.
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Old 10 Aug 2018, 16:46 (Ref:3842825)   #939
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Originally Posted by btccbloke View Post
2013 maybe, however:

2016 - Smiley apparently had funding issues and replaced by Caine (Arguably Team Hard's decision)
2016 - Caine replaced by Gilham because of injury (Team Hard not at fault)- Epps and Hill full season
2017 - Burns left out of final round because of injury (Team Hard not at fault) - Epps and Hill full season
2018 - Hill walks for reasons unclear (Not Team Hard's decision as TG was/is desperate to keep him)
Certainly in 2013, they ran 10 different drivers that year though they were not entirely the reason why TBLs were introduced.
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Old 10 Aug 2018, 19:36 (Ref:3842860)   #940
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Originally Posted by Nononsensecapeesh View Post
Certainly in 2013, they ran 10 different drivers that year though they were not entirely the reason why TBLs were introduced.
Again your referring to 2013, nobody is denying that, TG himself has pretty much said they didn't really have the funds in 2013, especially when you think they were developing a new car that would eventually go on to win the championship within 2 seasons!

Considering they sensibly skipped 2014 to regroup, from 2015 they have had 11 entries and run a total of 11 drivers.

Including Burns, up to the end of last season 5 of 7 entries between 2015-2017 completed the season with the same full time drivers. - not great but not as bad as people want to make out.

Team Hard certainly have their faults, and i would rather they bolted a pair of decent cars together rather than ran 4 cars badly, and Gilham always comes across like a wannabe gangster, but we shouldnt keep rubbishing them now purely based on financial issues 5 or 6 years ago
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Old 10 Aug 2018, 21:02 (Ref:3842886)   #941
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It's just a stat.
it is, but we are basically saying: "Many years ago, when there was no restriction on the number of drivers a team could use, they used more than i would personally have considered reasonable, but since they have been restricted, they have kept within those rules"
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Old 10 Aug 2018, 21:16 (Ref:3842891)   #942
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Again your referring to 2013, nobody is denying that, TG himself has pretty much said they didn't really have the funds in 2013, especially when you think they were developing a new car that would eventually go on to win the championship within 2 seasons!

Considering they sensibly skipped 2014 to regroup, from 2015 they have had 11 entries and run a total of 11 drivers.

Including Burns, up to the end of last season 5 of 7 entries between 2015-2017 completed the season with the same full time drivers. - not great but not as bad as people want to make out.

Team Hard certainly have their faults, and i would rather they bolted a pair of decent cars together rather than ran 4 cars badly, and Gilham always comes across like a wannabe gangster, but we shouldnt keep rubbishing them now purely based on financial issues 5 or 6 years ago
The Passat CC has never produced a Champion.
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Old 10 Aug 2018, 22:36 (Ref:3842899)   #943
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The Passat CC has never produced a Champion.
I am pretty sure you will find that in 2015 BMR were both Team Champions, and Independent Team Champions with the Passat CC's obtained from Hard, as well as Colin Turkington winning the Independent Drivers title in that car ... check your spreadsheet again

Last edited by btccbloke; 10 Aug 2018 at 22:44.
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Old 10 Aug 2018, 23:08 (Ref:3842902)   #944
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Certainly you got to admire TG for trying, even if he does get ideas above his station
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Old 10 Aug 2018, 23:55 (Ref:3842906)   #945
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Certainly you got to admire TG for trying, even if he does get ideas above his station
The triple 8 Vectra raffle comes to mind. He tried funding his seat by selling tickets to eventually win the car. Except the plan derailed when it emerged the cost of buying the vehicle from Triple 8 was roughly triple the figure raised from tickets sold. The money raised until that point went towards his Geoff Steel single round entry. The whole raffle plan was quietly forgotten.
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Old 11 Aug 2018, 10:16 (Ref:3842947)   #946
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Certainly you got to admire TG for trying, even if he does get ideas above his station
sport needs people like Tony,a TRUE privateer, you may not openly like or support him or his team, but he is the underdog you want to see do well, just that one time.

Team Hard are basically the Leicester City, the Jordan F1 team, the Tim Henman that none of us really supported, and we knew they weren't really good enough, but we all felt good when they had their day in the sun
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Old 11 Aug 2018, 13:28 (Ref:3842969)   #947
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https://twitter.com/itvmotorsport/st...690301440?s=21

Interesting - Geddie only driving at Rock and Knock at the moment.
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Old 11 Aug 2018, 13:36 (Ref:3842973)   #948
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https://twitter.com/itvmotorsport/st...690301440?s=21

Interesting - Geddie only driving at Rock and Knock at the moment.
well they cant get someone "new", AWE is certainly an appreciated driver at AMD and neither of the last 2 dates clash with mini challenge, I would imagine Glynn has got the 2 races he cant do to show hes a better prospect than AWE before Silverstone and Brands.

Tho assuming Ant is back in for Silverstone, will he have the ballast penalty again?

Last edited by btccbloke; 11 Aug 2018 at 13:41.
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Old 11 Aug 2018, 16:21 (Ref:3843003)   #949
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I am pretty sure you will find that in 2015 BMR were both Team Champions, and Independent Team Champions with the Passat CC's obtained from Hard, as well as Colin Turkington winning the Independent Drivers title in that car ... check your spreadsheet again
Still didn't produce the outright Champion and please leave my spreadsheet out of this.
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Old 11 Aug 2018, 16:43 (Ref:3843011)   #950
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Still didn't produce the outright Champion and please leave my spreadsheet out of this.
But nobody said "outright champion", are you saying teams, independent teams and independent drivers championships don't really count? I made the point that the Passat CC was a championship winning car 2 seasons after Hard introduced it in 2013. Clearly you hadn't thought through the facts when trying to tell me i was wrong.
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