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Old 25 Aug 2003, 00:52 (Ref:697851)   #1
The Snout
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First Lap 1985

Thing I like about forums is being able to ask questions about long ago and finally maybe get an answer.

Bathurst 1985, into the first corner Walkinshaw led Johnson in the Mustang. Yet going up Mountain Straight Johnson dropped to 5th or something. I assumed that he missed a gear, can anyone confirm or knows what happened ?

Not important but one of those long lost mysteries I wondered about.
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Old 25 Aug 2003, 05:30 (Ref:697928)   #2
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Dick did have a problem going up Mountain straight. It might have been gear selection problems, but I'm not entirely sure. One thing is for sure though is that those Jaguars were mighty fast up the hill, which could also be an answer to your question.

Check out one of the Great Race books for confirmation ...
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Old 25 Aug 2003, 06:30 (Ref:697956)   #3
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Would you believe that up until four days ago I had a copy of the '85 book next to my computer here at work, for research purposes on another matter, but Ive taken it home for safe keeping. If I remember Ill take a look and see what it says.

Outright engine power may have had something to do with it, of course Im sure no-one would bring an illegal car here from Europe
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Old 25 Aug 2003, 07:49 (Ref:697983)   #4
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racer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridracer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I'm not entirely sure the Johnson/Perkins Ford had a problem up Mountain straight that first lap.

The Mustang wasn't very fast in a straight line, and the cars that passed it up the hill was the V12 Jag of Jeff Allam/Ron Dickson and the Volvo turbo of Robbie Francevic/John Bowe, two cars which were very fast in a straight line (Grice may also have got him before Griffins as well, have to check the tape)
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Old 25 Aug 2003, 11:23 (Ref:698152)   #5
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Crash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCrash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Don't forget that a couple of cars down the pack had a barney half way up the straight and finished in the fence. Was one Alf Grant?
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Old 25 Aug 2003, 11:32 (Ref:698162)   #6
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Yep, Alf Grant / John French and Peter Fitzgerald / Brad Jones ended up in the barriers on the inside of Mountain Straight just out of Hell Corner.
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Old 25 Aug 2003, 12:12 (Ref:698204)   #7
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racer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridracer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It was quite a first lap that year. Brock and Goss went side by side over Skyline and through the esses on lap 1, and John Harvey got caught up with someone and had to pit at the end of lap 1.
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Old 25 Aug 2003, 22:03 (Ref:698724)   #8
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I think Allam, Francevic and Grice all got Johnson going up mountain straight (I'm doing this from memory). I can believe the Volvo Turbo and Jag getting him but Grice as well hmmm, the 'stang qualified 3rd so it wasn't that slow. Might have to hunt down a book some time.
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Old 26 Aug 2003, 01:29 (Ref:698906)   #9
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Had a look at The Great Race book last night, no reason was given for the lack of performance off the start, this could mean a combination of less HP and maybe even a missed gear (Getrag?) although it would be hard to get a driver to admit that .

Did the car have a camera inside or was that in '86? you never know that tape maybe hidden somewhere and would tell the story well?

ANYONE, ANYONE?
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Old 26 Aug 2003, 03:36 (Ref:698968)   #10
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Yeah he had an incar cam. Remember the smoke inside when he broke a oil cooler not far into the race and he had smoke inside.
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Old 26 Aug 2003, 05:43 (Ref:698994)   #11
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The Mustang was never a very powerful car, i'd be surprised if it got close to the Holden V8 on power output. Still, it had more grunt than the 635 Bimmer, everyone should remember the friendly wave from Richo Snr as Johnson outdragged him up Mt Straight.

Where the little 'Stang did excel though was its handling/braking.
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Old 26 Aug 2003, 06:39 (Ref:699011)   #12
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The only reason why the BMW 635csi was out dragged it was not allowed to use the 24 valve M6 motor it was homologated with.
Just like the M3's were not allowed to run abs, electronic spoilers & splitters
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Old 26 Aug 2003, 07:15 (Ref:699040)   #13
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The M6 engine wasnt an option in Group A, in Group C they were able to use the M6 24 valve motor because it was homologated that way under a 'Group 5' classification in Europe.

A good 635Csi evolution motor (i.e. late 1986) made at best 340bhp... bulletproof reliable, fuel efficient, tractable... but not powerful. The M3 produced more than that in the 2.5 Batmobile specification
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Old 26 Aug 2003, 07:23 (Ref:699048)   #14
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So why was the M3 not allowed to run at the homologated spec?
Abs, electronic spoilers, spiltters etc...

PS If the 2 JPS 635's did not spin into the sand at Hell Corner do you think they would have won (Longhurst & Richards not Crichton and I think Ludwig Finuear)
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Old 26 Aug 2003, 07:39 (Ref:699064)   #15
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The homologated spec for the evo2 M3 with the watercooled ABS, movable front splitters, and the really high rear wings were used in the DTM spec of the same car. All pooh poohed in Group 'A'. Beautifully designed and built cars though. Wonder if they had a pendulum fitted?

In 1985, Jim Richards and George Fury spun off on the same patch of oil and bogged in the sand. The Richards car had the consistency and enough pace to win, had it not spun, would have certainly finished in front of the Schnitzer Bob Jane T-Marts 635, and would likely have picked off John Goss' ailing Jaguar as well.

The Fury car, shared with Croaky was doing well but not as well as the lead car, so wouldnt have made a similar impression.

A shame for the JPS BMW boys, they never really could take a trick despite a lot of money and loads of effort.
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