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Old 6 Jul 2019, 10:12 (Ref:3916111)   #91
Mike Harte
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Mike Harte should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Simon Hadfield View Post
Iain gets it. Televised or not a concept has been established and passed by those far higher up the food chain than us. As I pointed out earlier we all race to the same rule book.

That rule book has this validated now.

I don't think that many of us are disputing that fact, that it is now allowed by those in charge. However, that doesn't mean that we have to approve of the laxity in the rules.

From my perspective, I learnt my race craft in the 1960s, and we had to keep to the track limits because there was no alternative - you would either hit a solid object such as a bank or even wooden sleepers or you would find yourself on really rough and bumpy grass with no grip - and there were rules about how you conducted yourself in overtaking manoeuvrers. This was repeated drummed into drivers at the briefings, and if you transgressed, you would be black flagged immediately.

And as far as overtaking was concerned, both drivers were expected to follow the guidelines. And it probably worked so well because, back then most of us drivers would also be responsible for any damage to our cars. We didn't have sponsors with deep pockets, and we certainly didn't arrive at a race meeting with a 40 foot artic stuffed to the roof with spare body panels and replacement engines, and so on.

The result was that there was usually some great racing but without the paint swapping. And the proof of that was that the number of spectators at an average clubbie would have been almost as large as seen at some of the most prestigious meetings held in the UK nowadays, such as a BTCC weekend.
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Old 6 Jul 2019, 10:30 (Ref:3916114)   #92
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Simon Hadfield should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridSimon Hadfield should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Mike, I take your points but you are conflating spectator numbers with driving standards when the number of specialised TV channels (and the vastly increased numbers of meetings) has a far higher correlation with declining spectator numbers. This is probably a different thread though.
I am not saying that competitors should drive to these new "standards" simply that they now exist.
And along with the great racing in the past there was some shocking stuff too.....
As someone that occasionally takes a 40 foot artic to events - not, it should be noted, stuffed to the roof with spare body panels - I don't see that as influencing driving standards.
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Old 6 Jul 2019, 10:32 (Ref:3916116)   #93
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delta should be qualifying in the top 5 on the griddelta should be qualifying in the top 5 on the griddelta should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Spa last weekend .Im in a very very good MGB .Some Dutch tw-t in a Falcon powers by going up to Blaunchement. He brakes for corner I can take flat and go back past him . This is the 3 hour race . He drives up past again going up to the chicane but obviously furious cuts across puts me on the grass then gives me the finger . For the first time in nearly 50 years of racing I honestly thought about reporting him . Hey what’s the point .
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Old 6 Jul 2019, 10:35 (Ref:3916118)   #94
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Simon Hadfield should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridSimon Hadfield should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I or A Iain? 😂
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Old 6 Jul 2019, 10:42 (Ref:3916120)   #95
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I or A Iain? 😂

Both?
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Old 6 Jul 2019, 10:58 (Ref:3916122)   #96
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Spa last weekend .Im in a very very good MGB .Some Dutch tw-t in a Falcon powers by going up to Blaunchement. He brakes for corner I can take flat and go back past him . This is the 3 hour race . He drives up past again going up to the chicane but obviously furious cuts across puts me on the grass then gives me the finger . For the first time in nearly 50 years of racing I honestly thought about reporting him . Hey what’s the point .

Looks likely there was only one candidate for this tale?

If so you beat them in the race Iain and I notice that they received a couple of Exceeding Track limits penalties.

Plus in Qualifying their best time was deleted due to overtaking under yellows.

Interesting background information that might partly explain things?
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Old 6 Jul 2019, 15:44 (Ref:3916154)   #97
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In my opinion there's only a small batch of black sheeps, always the same. Punish them as should and everybody will be quiet. What is done in F1 is a different matter. I dont think we must have points on our licences in historic. In France atm, some organisers are really concerned and like to remind some thet those races are by invitation only.
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Old 7 Jul 2019, 13:23 (Ref:3916312)   #98
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andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I am not sure how CSCC deals with things now as it is about 3-4 years since I was on the committee, but in my time I do seem to remember that a couple of competitors were asked not to bother submitting entries in future.

As a series co-ordination, I also remember ringing one competitor up to “have a quiet word” about his driving standards at one race, and suggesting that if he didn’t calm down, then his membership might be reviewed.
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Old 7 Jul 2019, 20:17 (Ref:3916390)   #99
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Here's a question for the Clerks on here.

Karting today my driver was chasing the field after an early off. Going down to a hairpin/loop type of thing someone several seconds up the road went off, careered across the infield and rejoined after the hairpin at walking pace having missed out the corner.

My driver went round the corner properly, came upon the miscreant and a yellow flag so braked sharply, back to walking pace, so the offender managed to pull away and block into the next corner.

1. Could he have legitimately have overtaken the "recovering" kart under yellow flag? Would he have been penalised for doing so?

2. Should it have been a white flag shown instead of yellow?

On a related point two of my drivers were called to the office because one was accused of overtaking the other under yellow. The "overtaken" driver, barely eight years old,, when presented with the evidence, calmly told the stewards the "the other driver is my team mate and he's faster than me so I pulled over and waved him by." By all accounts the drivers were ushered out so the clerks could stop laughing, at which point they were recalled - "no case to answer."



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Old 9 Jul 2019, 18:58 (Ref:3916729)   #100
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[QUOTE=midgetman;3916390]Here's a question for the Clerks on here.

Having been a Clerk (and Steward) for more years than I care to remember, my answers to both questions would be yes, and I'm sure many 'newer' Clerks would disagree.

As to sending the drivers out so that they could laugh - we've all done that.
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Old 9 Jul 2019, 23:29 (Ref:3916768)   #101
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Originally Posted by midgetman View Post
Here's a question for the Clerks on here.

Karting today my driver was chasing the field after an early off. Going down to a hairpin/loop type of thing someone several seconds up the road went off, careered across the infield and rejoined after the hairpin at walking pace having missed out the corner.

My driver went round the corner properly, came upon the miscreant and a yellow flag so braked sharply, back to walking pace, so the offender managed to pull away and block into the next corner.

1. Could he have legitimately have overtaken the "recovering" kart under yellow flag? Would he have been penalised for doing so?

2. Should it have been a white flag shown instead of yellow?

On a related point two of my drivers were called to the office because one was accused of overtaking the other under yellow. The "overtaken" driver, barely eight years old,, when presented with the evidence, calmly told the stewards the "the other driver is my team mate and he's faster than me so I pulled over and waved him by." By all accounts the drivers were ushered out so the clerks could stop laughing, at which point they were recalled - "no case to answer."



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1 Is two seperate questions the first No, the second yes he could (as per rules)

2 christ how long we talking?... most things happen in seconds for karting... was it slow that long? how long? before I state which flag I would want shown

Real time is a big factor in any circumstance... what you say on paper actually means very little in reasl time I believe.
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Old 10 Jul 2019, 08:00 (Ref:3916788)   #102
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Thanks for the answers.

The reason I asked is that we had a conversation after the race and none of us was totally sure what he should have done.

We'll be aware in future. It's not that common an occurrence but I've seen it a couple of times, once it was Mini MM who cut the corner and was overtaken, but as he re-entered the track backwards I would say that was legitimate

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