March 772P - 778

[allenbrown]

Phil Bennett came from Leeds. He drove the Andy Barton March 782 in a libre at Croft in October 1981 when it had been fitted with a BDA engine and with 79B sidepods. Maybe Bennett planned to buy it and use it in Atlantic. I have no record of Barton or his team racing this car again after this point.

The assortment of 772/P/782 parts on Roy's car would be consistent with a well-used ex-Barton libre car.

Dan has previously identified Barton's 782 as 782-13 but I don't have any note as to how we established that.

Allen

[roy moss]

Originally Posted by driftwood

Roy
i will pass on yr wishes
where is the old 792 car now?
i will make enquiry on 802 812 cars i know of just sold 822 roller

Thanks.
The 792 was stripped and built into a Tiga sports car and the tub was sold off overseas.
I still have a number of spares for the 792 which includes suspension (a complete unused front corner and rear corner inclusive of uprights ,remembering that the corners both front and rear were interchangable). This was part of a spares package from the Scheckter days still with original March packaging even after all these years.
Hope you can locate a 792 as they were very unloved cars but someone might have one lying under a pile of junk.
Regards
Roy

[roy moss]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Phil Bennett came from Leeds. He drove the Andy Barton March 782 in a libre at Croft in October 1981 when it had been fitted with a BDA engine and with 79B sidepods. Maybe Bennett planned to buy it and use it in Atlantic. I have no record of Barton or his team racing this car again after this point.

The assortment of 772/P/782 parts on Roy's car would be consistent with a well-used ex-Barton libre car.

Dan has previously identified Barton's 782 as 782-13 but I don't have any note as to how we established that.

Allen

Dear Allen,

Sounds very much like my car could well be the ex-Barton 782.
On going through my sets of wheels that came with car, there was a brand new set of Speedline rims with new still stickered M+H tyres.Did they possibly use M+H tyres in 1981?
There are also the usual March magnesium rims as well.
I hope I am not giving everyone useless info and if so please tell me,but anything that could help document the chassis or that comes to mind that could help finally identify the car I will send in.
Many thanks for your help and info. so far.
Regards
Roy

[allenbrown]

Roy

Andy Barton's son posts here sometimes. If you PM him he may be able to get his father to help you ID the car.

Allen

[Dan Rear]

Allen, Barton's 782 was described in an AS early 79 as being built around an ex-Hoffman tub that Ingo had seriously damaged in the late 78 Temporada.

Did Ian Sheckter have a 792? I know he had a 79B, but when did he use a 792, and if so where was it from?

[allenbrown]

Thanks Dan. So it's effectively a bitza - unless that Hoffman car never raced again after that accident in which case Barton's car could be said to inherit its identity.

[Chris Townsend]

The Hoffmann 782 was never identified as racing again. I've always assumed that the Barton car was indeed that car rebuilt.

Dan: regarding Scheckter's cars in 79. March built four 79As [Atlantic versions of the F2 car] along with the 79B which wasn't a ground effect car but an evolution of the 78B. Two 79As went to America but were only ever tested, or used rarely in practice for races by the Shierson team. One stayed in UK as a development model and one [probably chassis 1] went to Scheckter. If the 792 sucked, the 79A sucked rockets because the smaller BDA engine couldn't drag the thing along. Despite this Scheckter was competitive with Klomfass and van Rooyen with real 79Bs.
I've never quite worked out if Scheckter got a 79B later in the season or did something to the 79A to make it work.

PS: Dan, did you get my email about 1980 Mallory programme and the libre March 722

Chris

[Dan Rear]

No I didn't Chris.

Re the 79 Marches, I'm sure I've seen a pic somewhere of Ian S with a normal 79B. I recall the 79A, wasn't there a similar concept F3 the, 79C. Serra tested it that year IIRC, it wasn't used for 'political' reasons, or thats what March said at the time...

[driftwood]

I see i have a lot of catching up to do !!
comments
1 Sheckter had the 792 car from new ( T Dunne told me this)
2 79A cars november 1978 the car debuts in ZA 3 cars present Sheckter wins (Lexington) Klomfass (texaco) T van Rooyen ( Gunston)
the cars are reffered to as 79B in the mag article i am reciting from
3 M & H tyres where around in UK club races circa 1978 through to the very early 80`s
4 Andy Barton march 782/B off the top o my head someone has stated the car was dinged either here or on the Andy B thread ( poss the son has provided info? ) and was rebuilt with various parts from different cars
I dont think AB used BMW m12 motors

Roy ive tried to mail you directly

[roy moss]

Originally Posted by driftwood

I see i have a lot of catching up to do !!
comments
1 Sheckter had the 792 car from new ( T Dunne told me this)
2 79A cars november 1978 the car debuts in ZA 3 cars present Sheckter wins (Lexington) Klomfass (texaco) T van Rooyen ( Gunston)
the cars are reffered to as 79B in the mag article i am reciting from
3 M & H tyres where around in UK club races circa 1978 through to the very early 80`s
4 Andy Barton march 782/B off the top o my head someone has stated the car was dinged either here or on the Andy B thread ( poss the son has provided info? ) and was rebuilt with various parts from different cars
I dont think AB used BMW m12 motors

Roy ive tried to mail you directly

The 792 of Scheckter was a proper Formula 2 spec car as I drove it for a while.The car had both the sliding skirt and fixed skirt sidepods, and was ultimately used in fixed skirt mode.(I think I stiil have the sliding skirts and the side pod/wing profile end-plates packed somewhere in crates).
There were only two 79B's that came to ZA , Klomfass with Texan cigarette sponsorship and the Van Rooyen car with Gunston cig. backing.
The 792 winning the Championship was more down to Ian's driving talent as well as the legendary engineering of team chief Ken Howes.
Thanks, email received and replied to.

roy

I will contact Andy Barton and hopefully we can throw more light on my chassis and hopefully start on the road of getting an approved chassis number and plate if at all possible.

[Chris Townsend]

To reiterate for Drifty's benefit:
79A and 79B completely different cars. 79B a development of the 78B Atlantic; 79A a beast based on the F2 car, full ground effect Atlantic.
Chassis 79A-1 to Scheckter [and from what Roy says above and from photos later in the season modified to be as near as possible to late season 79B spec with full width nose and F3 skirted side pods]
79A-2 Jeff Wood, never raced
79A-3 probably kept by March as development car and for sale as 79A in Autosport October 79
79A-4 Shierson, never raced, sold in near original condition on race-cars.com a few years back.

Holmes and Wood both used 79As in practice at Long Beach 1979 but set times in and raced conventional 79Bs. Holmes in his Sports Car column talks about testing the ground effect car later in the season, but clearly there was a problem.

The 78B started out with conventional side pods like those on the 78B but people quickly started using the smaller, slanted top F3 pod with skirts, and then put them onto 78Bs as well.

Chris

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

The 78B started out with conventional side pods like those on the 78B but people quickly started using the smaller, slanted top F3 pod with skirts, and then put them onto 78Bs as well.

Thanks for the education Chris - but I don't quite understand this last sentence. Did you mean 79Bs as well?

[driftwood]

To reiterate for Drifty's benefit:is yous sayin im fick?!
The 78B started out with conventional side pods like those on the 78B but people quickly started using the smaller, slanted top F3 pod with skirts, and then put them onto 78Bs as well he means the 79B started out with 78b pods later went to wedge shape pods from F3 car with skirts

78 79A B/2 cars
78b is a car with a tub as used on 783 782 Vee cars
782 & B has same width wheels wishbones uprights Ft200 gbox rear wing BUT different side pods -782 has 2 piece pod the B has 1 piece and rear discs F3 non vented and 2 pot calipres

79B car uses 782/3 /B tub but is different from rear of tub to the 78B car
different engine frames rear rocker suspension and ( i think) uprights and has wedge sidepods and wide shovel " March" nose

792 is a different tub & suspension bodywork is ground effect with skirts narrow nose & small wings
so the 79A car would also use the 792 tub suspension body kit BUT run with BDD motor so a different engine frame is used
Did the car have 4 pot rear calipres and vented discs like the F2 car has

I would imagine the 79B car was a bit lighter than the 79A car but the 79A was relying on being faster due to GE body kit but the 792 was a poor car needing its skirts to be effective due to porpoising at high speed GE was in its infancy and info was not freely available

[driftwood]

To reiterate for Drifty's benefit:is yous sayin im fick?!
The 78B started out with conventional side pods like those on the 78B but people quickly started using the smaller, slanted top F3 pod with skirts, and then put them onto 78Bs as well he means the 79B started out with 78b pods later went to wedge shape pods from F3 car with skirts

78 79A B/2 cars
78b is a car with a tub as used on 783 782 Vee cars
782 & B has same width wheels wishbones uprights Ft200 gbox rear wing BUT different side pods -782 has 2 piece pod the B has 1 piece and rear discs F3 non vented and 2 pot calipres

79B car uses 782/3 /B tub but is different from rear of tub to the 78B car
different engine frames rear rocker suspension and ( i think) uprights and has wedge sidepods and wide shovel " March" nose

792 is a different tub & suspension bodywork is ground effect with skirts narrow nose & small wings
so the 79A car would also use the 792 tub suspension body kit BUT run with BDD motor so a different engine frame is used
Did the car have 4 pot rear calipres and vented discs like the F2 car has

I would imagine the 79B car was a bit lighter than the 79A car but the 79A was relying on being faster due to GE body kit but the 792 was a poor car needing its skirts to be effective due to porpoising at high speed GE was in its infancy and info was not freely available

[Steve Wilkinson]

Is it me or is there an echo on this forum?

[Chris Townsend]

Drifty is right about what I meant. The 79B had similar flat top pods to the 78B. These were quickly switched for 793 development sloping pods with a side panel to create a limited venturi effect between the side of the tub and the panel.
Quite a few people in the US then started putting these onto 78Bs in SCCA racing, making it harder to tell between 78 and 79Bs from the outside.

Drifty is also right, I think, about the tub differences. 79A probably used 792 tub but I don't think there was an engine frame on the 792, didn't it use the engine as a stressed member? Don't know if the brakes were different, but guess that they might have been and the uprights too.

Chris

[roy moss]

Driftwood,Allen,Steve
Herewith photos of car being collected,Simon inspecting car at his workshop,cockpit shot, and finally Simon testing car at Mallory post rebuild.
Note 79 B bodywork and sidepods with fixed rubber skirt which car had fitted when collected.The car also had three different spec 782 noses ( F/AT and 2 x F2)
Does anyone have Andy Barton contact details for me so that I may discuss the possibility of this car originating from him.I did go to the Andy Barton thread and found the comments re the 782 interesting.My car has a number of works numbers ( 772 U2/Bruno steering/782-07 ) so it might be that the car was built from ex - works parts as stated by Andy.However as the Barton thread is old I do not know if he will respond to this route of enquiry,hence the request to contact him direct.
Roy

[driftwood]

u will find Andys son on line email him directly to get something going
also due to yr distance send list of info and i can call him
i did speak to him 2 yrs ago as he had some old parts to sell on ebay of all places

[Steve Wilkinson]

Thought it was about time we had a period phot in the thread.


Eddie Cheever - March 782 - Thruxton Easter Monday

[driftwood]

Yummy yummy chassis 14 i believe this should really be on the 782 thread

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by driftwood

Yummy yummy chassis 14 i believe this should really be on the 782 thread

OOOOOOOOOOOOPS!

[Alpine]

I am following the 782 threads with some interest, and in particular the works cars. In the late 78 Temporada the damaged 782 were not perhaps those of Giacomelli and Surer? When Ingo damaged its? Before or after the Buenos Aires winning race?

[driftwood]

if you read the 782 thread in detail you will see that we have covered most of the cars
MARCH TEAM CARS
winklehock#9 restored now in usa collection jackomally car went to japan was crashed repaired surer car is # 7 around somewhere

[allenbrown]

More on the ex-Surer/McGarrity/Mather 772P-U2.

A "March" is advertised by Bobby Howlings in Autosport 18 Nov 1982 said to be ex-Surer and rebuilt by John Travis. This would imply that Travis's 1980/81 "772P" libre car was Mather's 783-tubbed, 79B-podded "772P" from 1979 that is now said to be in Canada.

Allen

[Dan Rear]

Makes sense to me, Allen.