The Vee thread

[bradenc]

Bill have we met, I recognise your name, maybe at the end of season party last year?

[FilW]

Having looked at the poll am I right in assuming that there are only 6 people who have/are or about to race Vee on this Forum (Worldwide):confused:

[woodyracing]

i guess we need to tell them all about 10-Tenths

[bradenc]

part of the problem is that if you come on to ten-tenths and want to find a vee thread you have to trawl because you cant search for vee 'cos you have to search for 4 characters at least.

[Irv the Swerve]

Irish Formula Vee is just about the most exciting class in the country. There is about 50 cars on a weekend and two races. The cars are practically all Sheane or Leastone, but you already know all of that.

As a class, it is brillant fun. The cars are easy to mess around with and costs are not that expensive. In fact, to run in England probably costs a lot more. When you think about it, Irish Vee is probably stronger than British Vee in general.

As for Formula Renault drivers, well the British National champ - Playle, i think, came over for a weekend in Mondello last year and had to be cut out of his car after an accident. Maybe the two formulae are incompatable.
But then again, he was trying to go up the inside of me.........

[bradenc]

from what i can tell, to be fast in british vee is gonna cost 10-15k for a season a usedcar and trailer is 3k-10k.

I have heard the AHS www.formulavee.co.uk has got a "new" engine. 9000rpm. This may push up the cost of being competative.

[av8rirl]

Realistically you are talking (based on a 14 round championship):
7 Tests - £1100
14 Race Entries - £2000
3-4 sets of tyres - £1200
Engine Rebuild - £800
Fuel - £400

Don't add the cost of the car into the seasons running as you can use it for the next 20 years (if you don't trash it).

So thats £4400. This WILL make you competitive.

You don't need to stay in a hotel. You don't need a camper van. You don't need to be the flashest bloke in the paddock.

You can use your normal roadcar to tow. A trailer will cost approx £1000.

You can add in wear & tear (depreciation), hotel/b&b costs, camper van, fuel to/from track, time off work, etc....

It can, is and has been done on very small budgets. Jeremy Clark, Trevor Walsh, Guy Bellingham, Patrick Sherrington, etc do not spend lots of money. They are winning every weekend.

Now, on the other hand, you can have a spare car (its not unheard of). You can have three spare engines sitting in the big truck. You can stay in flash hotels. You can do more testing. You can put on tyres every weekend. But when you spend £30000 and still don't win the championship, you'll look like an ass. This is an amateur class.

As regards the new AHS engine revving to 9000rpm: The engine was developed by AHS in conjunction with Arrows F1. It has side draught carbs which allow better fuel delivery (and probably some more). I heard a rumour that the engine can only be rented at a cost of about £7000 per season. You can't buy one.

it had its first appearance in a non-championship race at Oulton at the end of 2000. It won the race by default, after the two leaders came together at Lodge. By that stage they had approx 20secs of a gap built up on engines that had already done a full season (so they were a little tired). It was also a second off the fastest lap (with a very experienced pilot).

The engine made its next appearance at Silverstone for round one of the 2001 championship and dropped out with a broken pushrod(??) at Maggots on about lap 6.

I think it had one more outing and was dropped because it couldn't run at the front AND finish. Remember to finish first, first you must finish.

These engines were designed and built in the 50's/60's and were supposed to pull about 4500rpm. They are not made for 9000rpm. Something somewhere will fail at some stage.

I wouldn't really worry about this engine. When the TTM cabon fiber car came out (the one that Neale Blunden drives), everyone was crying that it must be illegal, too light, traction control, blah, blah, blah.... The quick lads still went out and beat it. At the end of the day, most of it is down to the driver. Yes, the car does play an important role, but if the driver can't drive, it doesn't make a difference.

bradenc: go out there, get some seat time, learn about the car, learn how to drive quickly, ask if you need to (only from someone that knows what they're talking about - theres a lot of people think they do - listen to everyone put pay heed to 2/3 known experts), get in with the right group, have fun.

Don't expect to win at the first attempt (not bad to be disappointed if you don't), don't think you know it all, don't worry about the new AHS engine and last of all DON'T HAVE ANY EXCUSES.

REMEMBER: ENJOY IT

[av8rirl]

Wow can I talk....

[woodyracing]

Originally posted by av8rirl
You can use your normal roadcar to tow

I'm looking at different tow car options, will a Ford Escort 1.8 TD be ok as a Vee tow car ?

[av8rirl]

Light trailer, light Vee - Ford Escort NO PROBLEM. One of the lads tows with a Montego.

If you are on a budget and you really want a tow car, try get an estate/stationwagon. You can use it for sleeping trackside. These are the things that we do when we want to race but don't have lots of money.

[woodyracing]

ok thanks, it would be easier to sleep in an estate rather than a saloon. I'll have to think about that

[av8rirl]

Anyone of the "real" racers with lots of cash will be shocked to be reading this. Imagine sleeping in a car so that you can race???? Thats what clubman racing is about. Getting out, testing, qualifying and racing hard.

[woodyracing]

I do a lot of camping anyway at the campsites around the circuits. Usually in my tent but ive had to sleep in my Fiesta a couple of times which was uncomfortable to say the least. It makes sense to sleep next to your racecar in the paddock though.

[BillStenning]

Originally posted by bradenc
Bill have we met, I recognise your name, maybe at the end of season party last year?

It's possible we did meet at the end of season party - but I was pretty drunk so memories are a bit hazy!!!

Looking through the threads, I agree with av8rirl... You can certainly do an extremely competitive season in Vee for 6k (and that includes testing) - if you run yourself.... If you're being run by someone then more or less double that.

I'd also say you can buy a competitive 2nd hand car for 6 to 8k.... Mine was about £6k once I paid for it and updated a few old parts. However you can probably do it for less. Look at Guy Bellingham in 2001... I've no idea how old his Scarab was (late 80's at a guess...) but he still won at Pembrey in it.... Same with Trevor Welsh in his old Scarab... True, both have bought new cars in the last 18 months but it's not 100% clear they're a whole faster in them.... (TW's Scarab still has lap record at Snetterton for example, Silverstone Lap Record also held by an 'old' Scarab)...

Also, look at Jon Randall - still running top 10 in a 1974 Kaimann...

The trick is all in the set up.... Get a decent Engine (there's 3 or 4 builders out there, all good - I use Andy Storer for mine), and you'll be fine - work on the set up and the driving.... the car (no matter how old) will be much better than the driver for at least 2 years.... Unless you're within, say, about 1.5 secs of the lap record then it's driver trouble not car... no matter what ANYONE tells you. (btw, driver trouble includes set up!)

We'll have to see the impact of a 9000 rpm screamer engine. If it's the same one as av8rirl mentions then I've been on the track a few times with it and slipstreamed past no problem.... didn't sound like 9000 rpm to me!!! However it may have developed since then.... It'll be pretty obvious to the rest of the field anyway.


Like I say, we shall see.

[bradenc]

who's at mallory tommorow (25th Feb)

[woodyracing]

anyone going to Mallory on 6th March? I might pop down.

[bradenc]

whats happening on the 6th? I know theres a race on the 9th.

[woodyracing]

sorry 9th i meant

[av8rirl]

Can you post the results afterwards? It'd be great if you could scan a copy of the results and email them...

[FilW]

I'll be there. My first race and I'm like a kid waiting for christmas!!!
Roll on the weekend!

[Sparrow]

sorry, not sure if this works??:confused:

[Sparrow]

I can confidently say that the Formula Renault drivers thought Formula Vee was great!!
Not only cheap as chips, its got fantastic racing and fantastic friendly people.
True, i didn't win any races, but that was due to overheating engines at snet and a spin at cadell. Got a new lap record at Cadwell though!! Doesn't matter about the results much, was only meant for a bit of fun and I came away with great memories and a massive smile on my face.

[av8rirl]

Hello Sparrow. Welcome to 10/10ths. What are you doing this year? Last I heard you had a test with Duma in F3 but I think they're gone? David Hall also tested at Pembrey. I think he's doing Dunlop Irish Touring Cars and Formula Sheane Rover in Ireland.

[bradenc]

I'll be there on the 9th. I'll gladly post the results, maybe some pics if you want them.

[av8rirl]

Pics would be even better. See if you can get a pic of the front of the TTM Veetech without the nosecone. I remember seeing the trick front suspension but don't remember it fully. Looks cool.