Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 20 Sep 2018, 00:37 (Ref:3851503)   #1
Richard Casto
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Richard Casto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
United States
Durham, NC, USA
Posts: 2,756
Richard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
How to fix F1?

I have felt that most threads here eventually gravitate to the topic of “what is wrong with F1” and “how it can be fixed”. Maybe it’s time to have a thread focusing just on that and nothing else. I initially thought maybe there should be some ground rules on how to respond, but I know that will not work.

But... I will try anyhow! Generally speaking, I am more interested in complete solutions. Act as if you are running the show. You own ALL the problems, not just some of them. So while saying “I just want better racing” is fine, tell us how you would do it. Be as specific as you can. Saying “Less downforce” or “budget caps” doesn’t tell us “how” that would be done. “How” is as important as “What”. Cover as much as you can. Quality of racing, the economics, long term health, marketing, etc.

I will share my personal thoughts before end of this week, but just wanted to kick this off. Discuss and enjoy!

Richard
Richard Casto is offline  
__________________
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.
Quote
Old 20 Sep 2018, 06:04 (Ref:3851526)   #2
Skam85
Veteran
 
Skam85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Australia
Melbourne
Posts: 2,022
Skam85 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSkam85 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSkam85 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Excellent thread. I can see this going over many pages.
Okay, I'll give it a go.

Points system:
- This is fine in its current guise. Keep the top 10, it rewards the winners, and mediocrity shouldn't be rewarded. Getting points for finishing 14th in a dog of a car is the equivalent of the 21st Century, millennial "participation award" blight.
- Finishing in the points shouldn't be replaced by 'finishing, therefore points'.

Penalty/stewards:
- Two stewards, on a permanent basis. Subject matter experts on the rules and regulations of Formula One. This can be former drivers, sure, that's okay, it also doesn't have to necessarily be someone who has driven in Formula One previously. The most important thing, is this is a full-time role, for every race on the calendar.

- Four levels of offence and subsequent penalties - let's keep this nice and simple. Name them whatever you like, but something like Minor, Medium, Severe, Deliberate etc etc, or even simply Level 1-5. Reprimands for very minor things to stay in place. Reprimands to be on a three-strike basis. Third reprimand incurs a 5-place grid drop.

- Penalties would be as follows:
Level 1 (lowest to highest). Drive through penalty to be served within 5 laps. If in the final five laps, a 5-sec penalty is to be placed onto the driver's finishing time. If this occurs in quali (such as impeding) - 1sec is to be added to the driver's fastest qualifying time.
Level 2. 10 second time penalty, to be served in the pits or after the race.
Level 3. 10 place grid drop for the next race.
Level 4. Disqualification from the event, with post-race determination on whether past behaviour or severity of the incident justifies a race ban.

Aerodynamic and engine regulations
- a working group of current and former F1 figures are to convene and work out the best course of action with regards to aero on a rolling basis. Team bosses are not to be involved in any way, however engineers and technical directors are permitted - one per team on the grid, all with equal say. These meetings are to be strictly confidential, with the risk of being shut out completely should there be leaks. Hopefully this removes the 'agenda' factor.

- Engines are to be made available for customers at a markup rate of 50% of the cost of production. For instance, if the engines cost $5m to make - they are capped for customers at $7.5m. Engines are also to be provided to no more than three customer teams. Gearboxes are bound by the same regulations.

- Engine regulations are to be frozen for a minimum of 5 years. This isn't my area of expertise, but remove the turbos, the MGU-s, the ICE and have them normally aspirated V8s.

- There are to be 8 engines per season, with no limit on when these are used. A new engine after qualifying can be used but this is from the pool of engines and if it fails, then you are one engine down. Once the pool of 8 is exhausted, time penalties will apply pre or post-qualifying. The first engine is a 1sec penalty, the second 2secs, and so on.

Tyres
- there is to be a tender for tyres every five years. Two tyre manufacturers are required at least, and are required to source a minimum of five teams. These teams are locked into a contract with the tyre supplier for a minimum of two years.

- Three dry tyre compounds will be made available at each weekend, with a total pool of 12 sets. Two compounds still must be used in the race.

Qualifying and Parc Ferme
- Qualifying knockout sessions to stay in place in its current guise.

- Teams can change their cars post-qualifying, with no parc ferme rules in place. The only proviso to this is that the curfew rules will still apply, with three curfew 'jokers' per season in place.

Money and budget
- There is to be a 'soft' budget cap of $200m, not including driver salaries.

- Should a team exceed this cap, then a tax on their spending over this amount will be put toward a pool of money to be distributed to the other teams based on their finishing position in the championship. The moment a team goes over this soft cap, they are ineligible for money from this pool. For Instance, Mercedes spend $50m over their cap, they must pay a 10% tax into the pool of $5m. Ferrari and Red Bull also do the same, leaving a pool of $15m to be distributed to the remaining seven teams (hopefully more once my F1 comes into play!). This will also allow new teams committed to a budget cap to be eligible for return money from the end of their first season.

- 70% of the total prize money is to be distributed based on the top 10 of the constructor's championship positions. (1st - 23%, 2nd - 17%, 3rd - 13%, 4th - 12%, 5th - 10%, 6th - 8%, 7th - 6%, 8th - 5%, 9th - 4%, 10th - 2%). Any new teams are eligible for this prize money.

- 20% of the total prize money is to be distributed to the driver's based on the top 10 of the driver's championship, in the same structure as above.

- the remaining 10% is a historical reward fund, to be distributed to teams who have been in the championship for 20 years or more - currently eligible is Ferrari, McLaren, Williams and Sauber. More weighting for these funds are on the oldest teams, such as Ferrari.

Testing
- There are no restrictions on in-season testing, but any financial outlay goes toward the soft budget cap. Teams are also limited to two 'test' engines which must have no more than three upgrades fitted to the current spec engine.

- Pre-season testing will be 2 x 3 day events, and are exempt from the soft budget cap.

I'm sure I'll think of more - however the main point of these above points is to simplify the rules and requirements, and encourage new entries.

Last edited by Skam85; 20 Sep 2018 at 06:16.
Skam85 is offline  
__________________
Part time wingman, full time spud.
Quote
Old 20 Sep 2018, 07:32 (Ref:3851530)   #3
V8 Fireworks
Veteran
 
V8 Fireworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,484
V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I am very interested in what a F1 that makes more of the downforce from the underbody, and is designed to generate less upwash behind it and be less sensitive to turbulent in-flow would look like. I think you would want to have a longer downforce generating floor (so the low pressure acts over a larger area and makes more downforce), with less rake on it (for less upwash to be sent to the car behind?).

Look at the "bargeboard" area on this Ligier/Spectrum S5000 car... It's a much more simple and cost-effective design than what F1 uses. It takes the clean air from under the nose and sends it under the floor, and neatly spits out the dirty air from the front tyres to the sides, without being made of 1,000 pieces like the F1 version.

https://www.motorsport.com/au/genera...00-car/374261/

The front wing, was almost certainly, developed in a much more economical way than a F1 front wing too...
V8 Fireworks is offline  
Quote
Old 20 Sep 2018, 07:47 (Ref:3851532)   #4
V8 Fireworks
Veteran
 
V8 Fireworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,484
V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Casto View Post
Generally speaking, I am more interested in complete solutions.
Powertrain rules
- An engine formula of a direct and port injected 3500cc naturally aspirated V10 with a rev limit of 16,000rpm and a season price cap of $4m USD for two vehicles supply with a common ECU and common hybrid KERS system (producing around 50hp of electric power). All power units to be supplied to FIA for sealing, and then randomly allocated between works and customer teams. The rebuild interval should be around 2000km - a unit must be used for two consecutive race meetings and can be used for testing thereafter, however if the unit fails (with evidence, e.g., bits of broken conrod can be demonstrated) there is no penalty to take a new unit.
- Gearboxes to have six ratios (prescribed ratios) with free choice of differential ratio, and be sold via a similar lease system as for power units. Any constructor can buy any available gearbox (with notice at July of the preceding season), for $2.5m USD for a two car lease per season.
- The price caps should discourage excessive spending on engine and gearbox R+D by constructors with vested interests -- as they will be forced to sell their products to their competitors at a uncommercial cost, if they spend too much on these items. Likewise, the price caps should allow independent firms like XTrac and Cosworth to not have an unreasonable barrier of excessive R+D cost when producing a competitive gearbox or power unit.

Technical regulations
- Three-element front wing, two-element rear wing, strictly flat endplates front and rear (no DRS!!!)
- Shaped underbody permitted with prescribed cross sectional area at each 50mm interval along the length of the car. Minimum radius rule (no fins or winglets allowed in the underbody).
- Minimum upper body radius rule (no fins or winglets allowed, except where prescribed - i.e., the front and rear wing).
- Each vehicle must use for each wheel, a conventional coil spring and oil shock absorber units with a conventional steel anti-roll bars. (Heave dampers, suspension interconnect, hydraulic antiroll bars etc not permitted).
- 3500mm wheelbase prescribed.
- 2150mm car width.
- 18" wheels with control tyre supplier (no performance drop-off criteria).
- No refueling during racing.
- Minimum cooling intake inlet area prescribed.
- Airbox intake area prescribed.


Commercial regulations
- Each team to receive an equivalent share of FOM prize and historical money.
- A power unit or gearbox supplier must supply any constructor who requests and pays deposit for a supply by July of the preceding season.
V8 Fireworks is offline  
Quote
Old 20 Sep 2018, 08:33 (Ref:3851538)   #5
Skam85
Veteran
 
Skam85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Australia
Melbourne
Posts: 2,022
Skam85 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSkam85 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSkam85 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
All power units to be supplied to FIA for sealing, and then randomly allocated between works and customer teams.
I like this one.
Skam85 is offline  
__________________
Part time wingman, full time spud.
Quote
Old 20 Sep 2018, 09:31 (Ref:3851543)   #6
Mike Harte
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Mike Harte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
United Kingdom
W. Yorkshire
Posts: 2,828
Mike Harte should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
All power units to be supplied to FIA for sealing, and then randomly allocated between works and customer teams.

This would seem to be a good idea, but it would mean that all the teams using that supplier's PUs would also have to identical gearboxes and other parts of the running gear, plus would have to run even more standardised electronics.


This would surely stifle innovation when we should be encouraging it. And is possibly one of the reasons that Williams, for example, decided that they would rather create their own gearboxes, etc. rather than beholden to Mercedes.
Mike Harte is offline  
Quote
Old 20 Sep 2018, 10:11 (Ref:3851546)   #7
Armco Bender
Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
Veteran
 
Armco Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
New Zealand
International Sheep Ambassador
Posts: 3,878
Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!
Scrap F1.
Make GP2 the new F1,all problems solved.
Armco Bender is offline  
Quote
Old 20 Sep 2018, 10:46 (Ref:3851552)   #8
E.B
Veteran
 
E.B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Australia
About 7kms East of Albert Park Melbourne
Posts: 1,862
E.B should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridE.B should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridE.B should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armco Bender View Post
Scrap F1.
Make GP2 the new F1,all problems solved.
Then we get the next Alonso back muttering about GP2 engines.....
E.B is offline  
__________________
"The unfortunate thing about the changes coming in next year is that they are all restrictions" : Adrian Newey.
Quote
Old 20 Sep 2018, 11:07 (Ref:3851555)   #9
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,879
S griffin has a real shot at the podium!S griffin has a real shot at the podium!S griffin has a real shot at the podium!S griffin has a real shot at the podium!S griffin has a real shot at the podium!
First of all let's get rid of all the extra aero, and keep it to just front and rear wings. Let's also ditch the two type of tyre per race and let drivers choose if they want to pit or not. And let's not have multiple compounds too. Also get rid of the SC free pass rule which just adds extra laps to SC periods. Let's also show a bit more leniency towards blue flags, and make it so the faster car has to get past.

One thing that was good about Singapore was that there were no grid penalties, so let's try and keep those to a minimum too. Let's also have less asphalt runoff in places where drivers can gain an advantage, so we can have an end to those tiresome arguments too. Let's keep the calendar to 19 places, and go to places that are worth going

Anyway that's it from me, I hope I haven't left anything out
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 20 Sep 2018, 12:14 (Ref:3851567)   #10
steve_r
Veteran
 
steve_r's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
England
European Capital of Culture 2008
Posts: 2,334
steve_r should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridsteve_r should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridsteve_r should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Stock front and rear wings - which are very basic indeed. Designed to allow cars to follow each other more closely by causing less disruption. This would do away with the need for DRS.

I actually don't fully subscribed to the notion that F1 needs "Fixing", but instead "tweaking". The above change would in my view improve the racing no end.

The prize money needs to be more fairly distributed among teams, but that would require someone with a degree not only in accounting but also politics to pull off.
steve_r is offline  
__________________
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
Quote
Old 20 Sep 2018, 15:05 (Ref:3851599)   #11
bjohnsonsmith
Race Official
Veteran
 
bjohnsonsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
United States
London, England
Posts: 17,007
bjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve_r View Post
Stock front and rear wings - which are very basic indeed. Designed to allow cars to follow each other more closely by causing less disruption. This would do away with the need for DRS.

I actually don't fully subscribed to the notion that F1 needs "Fixing", but instead "tweaking". The above change would in my view improve the racing no end.

The prize money needs to be more fairly distributed among teams, but that would require someone with a degree not only in accounting but also politics to pull off.
Fixing also covers the financing of F1. Currently F1 is at the mercy of two of the world's car manufacturers, Ferrari and Mercedes and they dictate a lot of what goes in F1, to the detriment of the smaller teams.

I think one way this could be rectified is, if Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault don't have to supply the smaller teams. Instead, the door could be opened to independent engine manufacturers, that smaller teams can look to as an alternative.
bjohnsonsmith is offline  
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying."
Colin Chapman.
Quote
Old 20 Sep 2018, 15:31 (Ref:3851606)   #12
NaBUru38
Veteran
 
NaBUru38's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Uruguay
Las Canteras, Uruguay
Posts: 7,884
NaBUru38 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridNaBUru38 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridNaBUru38 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Races are boring. Overtaking by DRS is artificial. The top teams always take the podium.


To solve that, aerodynamic regulations must be fixed, customer cars must be allowed, and prize money must be shared more fairly.
NaBUru38 is offline  
__________________
"Show me a driver who didn’t make a handful of errors this year, and I’ll show you someone who wasn’t trying hard enough." - David Malsher
Quote
Old 20 Sep 2018, 15:39 (Ref:3851610)   #13
greentrumpet
Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 84
greentrumpet should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Keep the safety regs, cut the aero that could never be successfully added to road cars, give the teams a fuel allocation per car and leave it at that. Thereby getting different engine configurations and sounds and a degree of freedom to encourage the true stars of racing design to really shine. If I enjoyed "formulaic" racing I'd watch the Carrera Cup.YMMV,obvs.
greentrumpet is offline  
Quote
Old 20 Sep 2018, 16:28 (Ref:3851617)   #14
chillibowl
Veteran
 
chillibowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Canada
winnipeg, canada
Posts: 6,031
chillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
like how you broke it down Skam85 so im going to use a similar format.

without numbers and what not, what follows is just a long but lose outline.

Points system:

this i would change as i have always found the points system a bit muddled. effectively every team/driver is still being ranked and those who dont score still hold a position used for when a count back is needed to settle the final classification.

handing out points for each finish would make the points table easier to follow. im a believer that tables and graphs should contain as much information as possible and non points finishes (represented by a dash on the table) does not clearly and easily reflect what transpired in a race.


Penalty/stewards:

largely agree on there being a permanent group of stewards who should be paid adequately and trained accordingly.

i am slightly hesitant to place a hard code/system down at the onset but would prefer a gradual transition from what exists now to allow the permanent group to establish their own code based on their past experience, training, and experience as the system evolves. incidents can often be very subjective so that will always be difficult so this one will take time imo.

but immediately i would like to see very strict guidelines placed on track limits. there should never be a situation where drivers get to feel out a track to see what they can get away with. this is an area that requires very little clarification for me.

Money and budget

Budget caps:

this is where my big change will be. like you i agree a soft cap with a luxury tax being placed on those who go over.

to borrow from the NBA, i would be more aggressive on it though. if the budget is $200mil (which i think is in the right neighbourhood for year 1) for every dollar over that there is a dollar in tax due.

if a teams goes above the budget to lets say $250mil (so 50mil over budget) then the tax increase to to 2 dollars in tax for every dollar in excess of 250mil. those who go over in multiple consecutive season will have to pay an additional escalator.

tax money of course to be redistributed among those teams that play below the budget.

*not entirely sure what i would include/exclude in that budget though. personally i dont think R&D budgets should be included. a. it would be too hard to monitor and b. i would not want to risk stagnation as teams dont develop for fear of going over the budget cap. smaller teams could them use their tax revenue to subsidize their own r&d projects and not have to rely on tech transfer from the big teams only (who knows where the next double diffuser idea will come from so lets encourage it coming from a small team).

also i think excluding R&D opens up the potential to justify a fixed price for engines...rather if R&D is included in the budget and the manu teams have to eat a luxury tax for it then they will have no choice but to pass that cost onto their customers - basically redistribute the luxury tax among themselves thus minimizing the effectiveness of the tax imo.

Financial redistribution:

hard pressed to place a percentage on this. on one hand i think FOM needs to invest more into the sport (fund their own R&D, develop safety, pay for better stewards, etc) so take that money off of the top. then they need their cut/reasonable return on their investment.

would like to see FOM take less from the tracks as well and done so in a way that allows the races to be financially viable for the hosts and in a way that keeps ticket prices down (ideally i would like to see a fixed pricing model for tickets outside of the VIP and hospitality areas.)

money should then be distributed to the teams via prize money based on finishing position.

would also like to see prize money paid directly to the drivers based on their finishing positions/points total. if pay drivers are going to be a thing then drivers who compete in an F1 race should receive a flow of income from the sport to help fund their future drives. (points for all drivers comes into play here).

no historical payments. historical teams already have a marketing and advertising advantage...let them monetize that.

new teams are eligible for distribution money.

(will take more thought to come up with the percentages though)

Aerodynamic and engine regulations

i would leave this largely as is as i do believe that teams should a. have the freedom to develop as they see fit (within their budgets of course) and i do believe that once money is equalized and budgets in place that the competition divide/gap will decrease and the cars will be closer on the grid.

the establishment of an ongoing working group made up of representatives from all the parties. permanent in nature with a goal of ensuring continuity across seasons and a goal of achieving a coordinated technological vision of future. whether that means replacing aero for mechanical, more or less safety, full cockpit vs no cockpit etc.

im under no illusions that there will ever be a consensus in direction, but the hope is that with an ongoing organization their will be more discussion and decisions will be made on an ongoing basis and not just when the next concorde agreement is about to be renegotiated.

that said, i would implement a hard cap for customer engine prices and the manus will need to rely on their road car divisions to recoup their r&d investments.

to be honest i dont have a preference for hybrid vs no hybrid...as long as it comes under the price cap the manus can decide among themselves.

a large relaxation on the allotment rules and teams can opt to use more engines provided they abide by the budget and luxury tax rules.

Tyres

for the time being i would leave this as a single supplier formula but under the condition that teams are free to chose their allotments as they see fit. every compound should be available at each race (FOM will course have to subsidize the transportation costs).

Qualifying and Parc Ferme

quali i would leave as is but i like the idea of opening up parc ferme and the reintroduction of quali trims (plus points for quali)

if a team can find a way under the budget cap to build a quali only car then so be it.

Testing

i would like to see more in season testing but not sure how such expenses would work under a budget cap scenario.

exempting it under the budget cap might prove difficult to analyze as teams will be using a variety of parts that may or may never be used during a race.

for the time being i would restrict testing as a means of controlling costs.

Data Acquisition

the only real time data acquisition will be between cars and their pits...no transmission to their data centres during the race. races need to be competed by those at the track. after the race spend all the time you want back at base going over the data.

Staff Size

seriously curtail the numbers but i would hope that a budget cap will take care of this by virtue of operating under a budget.

hate to advocate anything that will see people lose their jobs but all things being equal those that remain will be the best of the bunch.

Driver Challenge

a whole host of things that increase the mental and physical exertion a driver has to go through for a race.

cars that are more difficult/demanding to drive. manual transmissions and less help help from the data centre.

Broadcasting

a free online broadcast of the race at a lower resolution.

those who want to pay for 4K, HD, the associated apps, cable subscriptions etc still have a reason to do so but a free online broadcast will help increase the audience and sponsor value.
chillibowl is offline  
__________________
What shall we use to fill the empty spaces, where waves of hunger roar?
Shall we set out across the sea of faces in search of more and more applause?
Shall we buy a new guitar? Shall we drive a more powerful car?
Quote
Old 20 Sep 2018, 16:42 (Ref:3851620)   #15
chillibowl
Veteran
 
chillibowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Canada
winnipeg, canada
Posts: 6,031
chillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
i should add that even if F1 changes anything (even if it is something that i have advocated for) i still retain the right to complain about how bad F1 is!
chillibowl is offline  
__________________
What shall we use to fill the empty spaces, where waves of hunger roar?
Shall we set out across the sea of faces in search of more and more applause?
Shall we buy a new guitar? Shall we drive a more powerful car?
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DP's Fix gttouring Sportscar & GT Racing 31 31 Mar 2003 14:52
Is this a fix? Peter S Formula One 28 25 Mar 2003 14:17
Williams trying to "fix car" 2 weeks before Melbourne? Sodemo Formula One 8 28 Feb 2003 10:12
If you want to fix it mtpanorama Road Car Forum 3 17 May 2001 03:09
How to fix F1 Crash Test Formula One 2 25 Jun 2000 00:23


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:00.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2018 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.