Rockingham oval

[graeme]

Any idea why Rockingham (UK) are so precious about letting drivers out on the oval? From TV programmes (and TV never lies...), it seems that racers/drivers are allowed out on US ovals okay.

[Adam43]

If you mean racing. It is probably because if they mess up they hit a concrete wall at very high speed! No one in this country has particular experience of this. Speeds are (constantly) much higher than normal and cars not developed for the racing and coping with concrete at high speed! The US has many more series, drivers, cars and a general culture of ovals so it is more readily suited to letting people out there.

If you mean general public just toddling around, well they do have parades. However I suspect it doesn't happen everyday because they don't want ot have to clean it all the time!

I guess.

[graeme]

They were very disparaging about being able to run my Caterham around there at the end of a trackday for a few laps - "110mph is quick in any car". Like I haven't taken Schwedenkreux at the 'Ring flat at 120mph with about as much run off (or Paddock at Lydden for that matter...). Or a (detuned) NASCAR on a one-mile oval in the US. Why have an oval if you're never going to let anyone on it?

[DALY]

I think you'll find it is to do with licenses. To race an oval you need the correct race license, to get that you have to do a rooky course.
Also the track license will only allow oval racing type cars that are built to a certain spec. etc

If you want to run the caterham round an oval type track, try a track day at Millbrook.

Hope that helps

[Adam43]

They aren't going to let you run any car at the end of a track day on any circuit to be fair. They have insurance for the day and it just won't cover it. They won't even let you run out of session on the track you have booked. I'm afraid it just isn't going to happen. 'Ring or USA ovals will make no difference, they can't and won't just let random people do stuff like that.

DALY, Millbrook proving ground. It is good fun there, although I haven't been for about ten years (and never driven it myself). Have you been there often?

[Woolley]

As far as racing is concerned, isn't there some archaic law which prevents two consecutive banked corners, hence the horrid chicane?

[graeme]

I'm the trackday "organiser" bringing along 50 cars (and booked on the day myself)!

I've driven the Millbrook "oval" at a hundred and "cough" mph (you're not meant to go above 130mph without a helmet) - a great experience but gets dull after a few laps. Now the Alpine test circuit at Millbrook - I could drive that all day.

[mark ch]

yes blame the MSA for the two banked corners ruling, Believe ASCAR and the pick ups run to their own regs not MSA ones

[PaulSands]

Originally posted by mark ch
yes blame the MSA for the two banked corners ruling, Believe ASCAR and the pick ups run to their own regs not MSA ones

Could this be why Rockingham seems very much the Bete Noir of British racing and why they appear to be treated so shabbily by the establishment?

[Keith Wheeler]

It IS an MSA ruling that two corners of the oval cannot be used on the same lap. F3s are approved for the full oval, as their construction has been deemed able to cope with a coming together with the wall.

[ascarracinguk]

its all to do with the msa...rockingham would love to use the oval more...infact it would be better for them on race days because if you could get everything on the oval then you could have more support races at the ascar racedays.....its also why pickups are on the oval now

[graeme]

But they don't seem to want to let experienced racing drivers in relatively low powered cars onto the oval when the MSA aren't involved i.e. on a trackday???

[Adam43]

It is a shame, but my guess would be that it is down to insurance even on a track day. Also, I suppose, it isn't worth their while setting up criteria for measuring an appropriate level of experience (which they may need to do for the insurance!).

[Keith Wheeler]

If they let one person do it, everyone else there on the day will want to do it too!

[Instructor]

I instruct regularly at Rockingham and Millbrook amongst others.
I agree with an earlier comment that no organiser will allow a few laps on a circuit once the day is over. Rules is rules on that point for several reasons, not to mention safety and noise regs etc.

As to driving the Oval it is 'different' but a track day just using the oval would not be good. Ideally cars need to be set up for ovals if they are to run a long time. The experience is sooo different too it would be a big culture shock for most drivers.

There is no second chance on the Oval, get it wrong and you're in the wall. By 'getting it wrong' this could just be sneezing while going through turn 4! you are that much on the edge.
Also please remember which side most drivers will be sitting and which would be nearer the wall.

I honestly feel you get the best of both worlds by using the International circuit which uses turn 4 and the chicane. Believe me, turning off the oval and through the chicane is more focussing than taking turn 1.

As to Millbrook, the Hill circuit is fantastic and the Oval is unusual in that it was designed by a woman, is 2miles and you can sit in the outside lane and take you hands off the steering wheel. The car will still follow the circuit. This can be an interesting action if you then turn round to talk with the rear seat passengers on a demo lap! tee hee not that I've EVER done that!! (honest!).

Anyway
That's my sixpennyworth

Best regs
Steve L

[DALY]

I have driven both the Millbrook "oval" and teh hill course. The oval is like motorway driving, (most people in the outside lane) The hill course is fantastic, unless they have the rather keen sigmal marshalls who can see most of teh course, particularly where all 4 wheels leap into teh air!

[Instructor]

Yup wheels off.. just Like Donny used to be and the old 'Ring'.. oh not forgetting Mountain at Cadwell !

Hmm technically the Oval at Millbrook is the 'Bowl'

Did you know they filmed some of Biggles there!
Useless fact number 101

Best regs
Steve L

[graeme]

Sorry, not being clear - the idea was to forego the last track session to have a run on the oval.

"There is no second chance on the Oval, get it wrong and you're in the wall" - the same could be said of Woodcote at Silverstone in the wet (or tens of other corners), and you don't have to do special training for that...

So it seems there no way to drive on the oval unless you sign up for one of the punter-orientated duck 'n' drake days (a Seat leading around single singlers!!!! - hardly on the limit)

I think 100mph is the "hands off" speed in the top lane of Millbrook - thyere's a story of a couple of journalists setting the cruise control on a Bentley and climbing into the back seats to do a lap. Then the cruise control switched itself off...!

[Keith Wheeler]

I'm sure that Instructor can tell you that the 'duck n drake' oval sessions at Rockingham are not the gentle drive that you might imagine!!

[graeme]

Hmmm - they were running at lunch when I was testing there last year. Lap time was about 1 minute = about 90mph average? (so slower than that through the corners...).

[racerkeke]

Something that no one's mentioned here is that oval racing does not take place in any kind of wet. I mean NONE. Not even damp. No fog, no mist, nothing. Sometimes in winter you even get a bit of dew on the shaded part of the course, which precludes running until the jets remove it. Moisture is what nearly scuppered the first champ car race at Rockingham.

I should also remind you that oval tracks must be "groomed" before use -- and if it doesn't get used much then it's probably got dust, small pebbles, maybe the occasional bolt or screw lying peacefully in the line. This is a recipe for disaster.

I can see why they said no. If you think a run on an oval is "just like (insert difficult road course turn here)", then IMO you definitely shouldn't be allowed to do it, because you don't have the proper respect for the track.

keke
-who has spent entirely too much time ducking and picking carbon fibre out of my hair at ovals-

[Chigley]

Something that no one's mentioned here is that oval racing does not take place in any kind of wet. I mean NONE. Not even damp.

Small problem Keke, us Brits ain't read those rules about Ovals. Our pick up series have raced in the wet at Rockingham in fact there were plumes of rooster tails from the spray. The pick-ups in fact helped to dry the track for ASCAR. Lap times were only a couple of seconds slower than in the dry. Apparently one driver had wets on one side and dry on the other!!

ASCAR have wet tyres available but have not used them apart from tests, this may have been on the infield though not the full oval.

[Instructor]

Yup you can race Days of Thunder cars or Pickups around the Rock.
Days of Thunder Cars will not run in the wet.
They do between 150 and 165 mph which is perhaps why!
They did try wets but ALL decided was a no go in reality.
Pickups I have seen in wet conditions but not torrential.

As to the 'customer duck and Drake days'
I've had a SEAT up to 120mph through turn 4 which is pretty focussing on a customer day.
The Rock now uses BMW 330s which I've not had a good weather opportunity to try yet!

As to the wet on the Oval. The customer days still run in the wet, often in wetter conditions than one would race.
So long as you stay off the inside of the turns, the overall speed is not much reduced!

As to the customes and one minute laps...
The groups are assessed in temrs of ability and confidence.
Each group has to go at the slowest cars pace.
We bring the groups in as often as possible to swap ability within the groups. Hopefully ending up with 4 pace cars with 4 groups of similar ability/confidence, therefore making sure that every driver is going as fast as they dare or want to.
We know the limits and we have seen some 'billies' who think they know better... end up in the wall.
Nothing serious, just bent car and damaged pride.

Having stuck up for the left turn only experience, I have to say I prefer to turn right as well, you can't beat a good Oulton, Cadwell, Croft, etc. BUt the Toilets are a lot better at Rockignham

Best regs
Steve L

[graeme]

I just don't think a "billie" day is going to give me what I want... Is it possible to do the ASCAR training, even if you've no intention of racing them. I guess its big money?

[Instructor]

yup you can do a rookie test.
Not sure of the latest fee.
Contact the Rock for deets.

You go out in the 'trainer' 2 seater.
Then build up to lap sub 42 second.

Steve L