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Old 5 Oct 2021, 15:29 (Ref:4077062)   #5731
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It probably was inevitable we would lose the double header. Belle Isle was good and certainly was better than the downtown GP circuit at Detroit, but we'll see

I do wonder why Pagenued is not out of Penske. Has he got better options? I really hope he does, a talent like that would be wasted otherwise. Fingers crossed for the future for him, he could even drop back down a series and still perform

Power has been a bit of a disappointment as you say and McLaughlin has been ok, but nothing major. I do wonder what Penske is doing. They need to do better than this, but there you go

I just hope they can get something sorted, they are losing big time to others. Whether the Chevy engine is not working or they haven't got the chassis sorted IDK, but it does not look great for them against the Honda runners who seem to have their engine/chassis sorted
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Old 5 Oct 2021, 18:12 (Ref:4077094)   #5732
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The only thing I see as a positive of leaving penske, of which there aren't really "better" options is that with newgarden and power he was always going to be second fiddle and not really prioritized in a championship fight.

He's going to Meyer shank racing, so not really a title contending team yet. Though with him and castroneves I could see the team improving development wise and jumping into a race winning contender, and top 10 points finish. Top ten in this series is pretty good, when you figure you have 1 penske, 3 ganassi, 1 mclaren and 2 andretti cars you can pretty much slot into the top ten. That leaves 3 spots for the other 2 penskes, the other mclaren, a third andretti, plus MSR, rahal (×2) and maybe one other out there.

I'm obviously biased, I like pagenaud. Have ever since he was deferran's secret weapon in the p2 Acura in ALMS. But I can't figure out why he was never fully embraced at penske. He struggled year one (similar to mclaughlin) and there was talk of him being on the hot seat in year 2. Don't hear that about McLaughlin. So what did he do? Just won a championship... 2 years later he's back on the hot seat before getting resigned one more time. After that he wins a 500 and is still out. Seems crazy to me.
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Old 5 Oct 2021, 19:36 (Ref:4077105)   #5733
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The only thing I see as a positive of leaving penske, of which there aren't really "better" options is that with newgarden and power he was always going to be second fiddle and not really prioritized in a championship fight.

He's going to Meyer shank racing, so not really a title contending team yet. Though with him and castroneves I could see the team improving development wise and jumping into a race winning contender, and top 10 points finish. Top ten in this series is pretty good, when you figure you have 1 penske, 3 ganassi, 1 mclaren and 2 andretti cars you can pretty much slot into the top ten. That leaves 3 spots for the other 2 penskes, the other mclaren, a third andretti, plus MSR, rahal (×2) and maybe one other out there.

I'm obviously biased, I like pagenaud. Have ever since he was deferran's secret weapon in the p2 Acura in ALMS. But I can't figure out why he was never fully embraced at penske. He struggled year one (similar to mclaughlin) and there was talk of him being on the hot seat in year 2. Don't hear that about McLaughlin. So what did he do? Just won a championship... 2 years later he's back on the hot seat before getting resigned one more time. After that he wins a 500 and is still out. Seems crazy to me.

Maybe with Pagenaud it was a clash of personalities and he just didn't gel with Team Penske but was always able to deliver the goods when it mattered in order to keep his seat? As you say, he was in the hot seat in his second year at Penske, won the championship in 2016. Two years later he's back in the hot seat, gets re-signed and wins the 500 in 2019 and is finally out at the end of this season.

Penske hasn't signed a fourth driver to replace Pagenaud, so clearly wants to field a three car team and has the drivers he wants in those seats.

As for McLaughlin, he comes from a completely different school of racing and it is his first full season in IndyCar, so I wouldn't necessarily expect him to be right up there and he is sort of Rodger Penke's Golden Boy, having won the Supercars Championship three times in a row.
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Old 5 Oct 2021, 20:27 (Ref:4077113)   #5734
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I think there's also something to drivers being adapted to the way teams build a car. Especially given Penske has a very different shock and bits package to the rest. If you don't drive the car how it is and fight it you just won't get the most from it.

Hopefully he and Helio full time can convince the guys at MSR to stop being cute and trying to out think the field. Seems like Indy and IMSA they're trying to be cutesy and try things, just be there at the end and see what happens.
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Old 6 Oct 2021, 12:37 (Ref:4077184)   #5735
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Sato leaves RLL, saying landing a ride with a new team was “just 50/50, so it’s a difficult situation.''


https://racer.com/2021/10/05/rahal-l...ms-satos-exit/
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Old 6 Oct 2021, 13:20 (Ref:4077188)   #5736
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Think we'll see him at Indy in a one off but the rest of the season not so much
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Old 11 Oct 2021, 16:33 (Ref:4078055)   #5737
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Jack Harvey confirmed at Rahal Letterman Lanigan Racing.


https://racer.com/2021/10/11/rll-con...ycar-campaign/
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Old 11 Oct 2021, 19:41 (Ref:4078094)   #5738
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I think there's also something to drivers being adapted to the way teams build a car. Especially given Penske has a very different shock and bits package to the rest. If you don't drive the car how it is and fight it you just won't get the most from it.

Hopefully he and Helio full time can convince the guys at MSR to stop being cute and trying to out think the field. Seems like Indy and IMSA they're trying to be cutesy and try things, just be there at the end and see what happens.
He seemingly adapted well, winning a championship and 500. Maybe those were both before the new chassis though? I know t championship was at least. Maybe he hasn't adjusted well to the new chassis the last few years? But he did finish pretty high up in the points last few years though.

Or maybe he wanted to be the focal point of a team rather than the third or fourth ranked guy?
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Old 11 Oct 2021, 20:38 (Ref:4078112)   #5739
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New chassis?? I don't believe they've done anything with the chassis in a few years outside of the aeroscreen addition. Now the shock packages, and other tweakable bits, have changed and will always change as it is the big development area. Maybe he does not like the development path but he has been consistently behind the rest of the Penske pack for the last couple seasons. Although it may be their development cause the results don't seem to be as consistent across the team either.
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Old 11 Oct 2021, 20:54 (Ref:4078122)   #5740
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He seemingly adapted well, winning a championship and 500. Maybe those were both before the new chassis though? I know t championship was at least. Maybe he hasn't adjusted well to the new chassis the last few years? But he did finish pretty high up in the points last few years though.

Or maybe he wanted to be the focal point of a team rather than the third or fourth ranked guy?

He won the championship in 2016, driving the DW12 with the Chevy aero-kit and won the 500 in 2019, driving the DW12 with the current aero-kit UAK18, or Universal Aero Kit 2018, pre the introduction of Red Bull Advanced Technologies Aeroscreen in 2020.
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Old 11 Oct 2021, 21:16 (Ref:4078129)   #5741
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New chassis?? I don't believe they've done anything with the chassis in a few years outside of the aeroscreen addition. Now the shock packages, and other tweakable bits, have changed and will always change as it is the big development area. Maybe he does not like the development path but he has been consistently behind the rest of the Penske pack for the last couple seasons. Although it may be their development cause the results don't seem to be as consistent across the team either.
Aero kits and previous design of the chassis, up to 2017. 2018 to present is universal kit with new design features (may just be cosmetic differences, to be fair, but the aero kits were for sure different).

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He won the championship in 2016, driving the DW12 with the Chevy aero-kit and won the 500 in 2019, driving the DW12 with the current aero-kit UAK18, or Universal Aero Kit 2018, pre the introduction of Red Bull Advanced Technologies Aeroscreen in 2020.
Right, so maybe he has struggled with the newer cars, without aero packages and new design. I was just trying to make sense of how he didn't adapt to how penske built their cars, after seemingly adapting just fine, prior to that. If I remember correctly, he was top 3 or so in points the year after winning the championship, which would have been 2017, last year of older version of chassis and aero kits. 2018 brings new cars, and maybe he didn't adapt to that as well?
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Old 12 Oct 2021, 13:01 (Ref:4078202)   #5742
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Definitely they could do with a bit more variety in terms of set up. It's a shame we are stuck with the current universal kit, it would be nice to see different ideas come up. It's not that bad though

Pagenued does seem to have struggled with the newer cars and is maybe missing a bit more opportunity to show his talent. Penske have gone a bit backwards of terms of how they've prepared their car too. Maybe it is time for a change for Simon. Just hope he makes the right choice. He deserves to be remind everyone how good he is
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Old 15 Oct 2021, 00:28 (Ref:4078517)   #5743
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Definitely they could do with a bit more variety in terms of set up. It's a shame we are stuck with the current universal kit, it would be nice to see different ideas come up. It's not that bad though

Pagenued does seem to have struggled with the newer cars and is maybe missing a bit more opportunity to show his talent. Penske have gone a bit backwards of terms of how they've prepared their car too. Maybe it is time for a change for Simon. Just hope he makes the right choice. He deserves to be remind everyone how good he is
Simon is with MSR now. Long term contract includes some IMSA. he'll work with Helio and feels its better than the compromised set ups stuff he had at Penske
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Old 15 Oct 2021, 10:46 (Ref:4078564)   #5744
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It's probably for the best with Simon. He could learn a lot from Helio and do more with his talent there
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Old 15 Oct 2021, 11:07 (Ref:4078566)   #5745
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I do hope Simon is still able to show his talent, but him and Helio should make a great team anyways. Of course it was probably not his choice really where he ended up, but at least he keeps his foot in the door
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